DSC 1 Should there be more content

Sylvanius

Well-Known Member
To return to the OPs question and things he felt should also be covered; "1.The elements for making a successful stalk; Wind direction, land assessment, likely locations, equipment list, shooting aid's.
2. Carcass management; how to undertake a gralloch in order to inspect the carcass, extraction and removal, equipment list, knife selection.
3. Management, Over shooting, disturbance, cull targets, management plans."

- All of these were actually talked about to greater or lesser extent on my own DSC1 course. They may not be on the "curriculum" for DSC1 but they were certainly addressed by our instructor in reasonable detail. In fact, I'd go as far as to say that all the additional talk over and above the set course content and meeting others with varying levels of experience was just as useful as the set content and if anything fired me up to learn more. At the end of the day it's only meant to be an introduction as such, a place from where your learning really starts. I suppose it also depends how much your are charged of course as to what you may feel you should get out of it.
 

howa243

Well-Known Member
DSC1 needs beefing up in my view. If the police are going to use it as a minimum requirement, then i think it needs to be worth the paper its written on.
 

Alantoo

Well-Known Member
DSC1 needs beefing up in my view. If the police are going to use it as a minimum requirement, then i think it needs to be worth the paper its written on.
I think it is worth the paper its written on...like any other, the qualification just shows that you are knowledgable about a sufficient proportion of the stated curriculum to pass...nothing else.

It is only the shooting and safety test which is relevant as far as the the police using it as part of their assessment in granting an FAC.

I agree it would be good to beef that up. But I think it would be more appropriate to have a dedicated shooting-and-safety training and qualification, which could include the disciplines of others using rimfire and high velocity rifles in the countryside who may have no interest in deer. Fox and rabbit control including lamping or night vision spring to mind.

A basic rifle driving test.

Alan
 

zambezi

Well-Known Member
I think it is worth the paper its written on...like any other, the qualification just shows that you are knowledgable about a sufficient proportion of the stated curriculum to pass...nothing else.

It is only the shooting and safety test which is relevant as far as the the police using it as part of their assessment in granting an FAC.

I agree it would be good to beef that up. But I think it would be more appropriate to have a dedicated shooting-and-safety training and qualification, which could include the disciplines of others using rimfire and high velocity rifles in the countryside who may have no interest in deer. Fox and rabbit control including lamping or night vision spring to mind.

A basic rifle driving test.

Alan
+1
 

Cris

Well-Known Member
I think it is worth the paper its written on...like any other, the qualification just shows that you are knowledgable about a sufficient proportion of the stated curriculum to pass...nothing else.

It is only the shooting and safety test which is relevant as far as the the police using it as part of their assessment in granting an FAC.

I agree it would be good to beef that up. But I think it would be more appropriate to have a dedicated shooting-and-safety training and qualification, which could include the disciplines of others using rimfire and high velocity rifles in the countryside who may have no interest in deer. Fox and rabbit control including lamping or night vision spring to mind.

A basic rifle driving test.

Alan
Careful here as there are some people that have no interest in vermin control, night shooting, clay pigeon shooting or feathered / small game shooting with a shotgun. Whole new can of worms there if the police started going down that road.
 

Alantoo

Well-Known Member
Careful here as there are some people that have no interest in vermin control, night shooting, clay pigeon shooting or feathered / small game shooting with a shotgun. Whole new can of worms there if the police started going down that road.
Not quite sure I follow your point...could you explain a bit more?

My suggestion was that like a car driving test there should be an obligatory rifle safety training and test which was not linked to any particular quarry or discipline like DSC1 is. It would be just about firearms, inclusive of teaching the student the various ways one might use (or the dangers of misuse) a rifle in any circumstance, so they were equipped whatever their reason for having a rifle or shotgun come to that.

I have looked down the barrels of too many shotguns (and witnessed fellow beaters being peppered) to know, that a bit of muzzle awareness and safe handling training should be a basic requirement for any body wanting a firearm.

Alan
 

jimbo1984

Well-Known Member
Careful here as there are some people that have no interest in vermin control, night shooting, clay pigeon shooting or feathered / small game shooting with a shotgun. Whole new can of worms there if the police started going down that road.
People don't seem to mind us going down that road already with deer calibres so why shouldn't they !
 

Sylvanius

Well-Known Member
I agree actually - for all their 2nd amendment rights, some U.S states for example have basic hunter safety training they require if you want a ticket for their public land, and some require it for concealed carry permits (not applicable here of course!). These are about safety, rather than shooting effectiveness, and having seen truly awful muzzle "awareness" on some pheasant & grouse shoots (not something I do myself, but I used to grouse beat and live in an area where there are several pheasant syndicates around) and like most of us, heard a boat load of horror stories from near misses through a guy drey shooting with centrefires (!) to someone shooting their own back window out with a loaded rifle in the car, I'd see nothing wrong with some basic safety training even if mandatory (it would have to be mandatory to have any effect - those who are most dangerous invariably are the ones who consider themselves not in need of training). The safety principles are pretty universal after all. As the shooting times used to feature that poem in every issue (they may still do for all I know) "all the pheasants ever bred, won't repay for one man dead". So I can see why the police like DSC1 as at least they know you've had basic safety explained.
 
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Cris

Well-Known Member
I agree actually - for all their 2nd amendment rights, some U.S states for example have basic hunter safety training they require if you want a ticket for their public land, and some require it for concealed carry permits (not applicable here of course!). These are about safety, rather than shooting effectiveness, and having seen truly awful muzzle "awareness" on some pheasant & grouse shoots (not something I do myself, but I used to grouse beat and live in an area where there are several pheasant syndicates around) and like most of us, heard a boat load of horror stories from near misses through a guy drey shooting with centrefires (!) to someone shooting their own back window out with a loaded rifle in the car, I'd see nothing wrong with some basic safety training even if mandatory (it would have to be mandatory to have any effect - those who are most dangerous invariably are the ones who consider themselves not in need of training). The safety principles are pretty universal after all. As the shooting times used to feature that poem in every issue (they may still do for all I know) "all the pheasants ever bred, won't repay for one man dead". So I can see why the police like DSC1 as at least they know you've had basic safety explained.
Agreed this approach is a good idea for safe handling of firearms in a generic sense. It would have to be mandatory and a requirement for issue or maybe even renuwal if you have not had some form of safety training.
 

oowee

Well-Known Member
Some very good points raised on here and it all makes interesting reading. I was lucky to have an experienced stalker to take me out and show me the ropes but for me if the course is there to provide someone with the basic tools needed to start stalking then in my view it needs more detail and to formerly cover the basics. It's certainly a great start and as some have said on here the wider content and learning from the tutors outside of the program was invaluable. I don't know what sort of training they do in Europe but I imagine that there are benefits from looking at other training programs. Whilst not wanting to go down the route of creating too many hurdles, financial or otherwise it must be in the long term interest of our sport to ensure that hunters are well trained.
 
Thank you,
Do as you wish, however acting as a nearly free service only serves to take work away from those on here who charge and provide a professional service with all the overheads that come with what they provide.

By doing it for " free " lowers the rate and in turn the income which needs to be generated back into the sport.

As a business man you charge your rate for the work/service you provide, having a person willing to travel and provide a free service is not what you would want/need competing in todays economic climate...

I am sure those you help are grateful, however others who's work you take away might think differently, as why go to them when they can go to you.

The rates in shooting are at both ends of the scale £30.00 + for partridge, 10p later in the season with it in the chillier. A gold medal ££££ 2.80 a kg on the hook.


As nice a gesture as it is, you cant save the sport by doing it for free...

Edit this morning as last night was to late for maths, a member on here who I know very well is currently doing his dsc2.
The cost per stalk/witness is £150.

As you mention " I've carried out literally hundreds of DSC 2 stalks as an a AW"

If you equate hundreds in to a value of lets say 500

500 x £150 = £75000.00

That is 75k which has been potentially taken out of stalking operators pockets...

You once said to me in a reply " you don't know what you are doing"

75k is a lot of, you don't know what you are doing!

Tim.243
Just Wow!!

Someone offers their time for free to help the development of other stalkers and they're doing 'the sport' a disservice!! This post epitomises everything that is wrong with 'the sport' and then some, much more apt would be 'the industry'.
 

JTO

Well-Known Member
Just Wow!!

Someone offers their time for free to help the development of other stalkers and they're doing 'the sport' a disservice!! This post epitomises everything that is wrong with 'the sport' and then some, much more apt would be 'the industry'.
That's what happens when a hunter gatherer 'activity' becomes a 'sport', just like wildfowling has degenerated in the same way.
 

norma 308

Well-Known Member
Just Wow!!

Someone offers their time for free to help the development of other stalkers and they're doing 'the sport' a disservice!! This post epitomises everything that is wrong with 'the sport' and then some, much more apt would be 'the industry'.
Well said if I'd paid for the services of my mentors over the years i'd be many thousands of pounds poorer in the pocket .hopefully when the time comes i can pass on some of what they've given me Foc that knowledge was and is invaluable.
 

0284

Active Member
I dont think there should be more than what there already is. The paper is very easy but for people who are older it may be difficult
 

Odders

Well-Known Member
I dont think there should be more than what there already is. The paper is very easy but for people who are older it may be difficult
I just completed my DSC-1 yesterday & somewhat agree.
Despite having "the book" for several months & studying its contents, as well as garnering knowledge from other sources, I wouldn't class the test papers as "easy", especially as you say for those of us who haven't been in a formal learning environment for many years.
I'm 60 & haven't done course work since my time with the MoD 30 years back & despite a good level of education, getting the knowledge to "stick" was pretty damn' hard.
Oh well; onwards & upwards, as I've just booked an EFAW+F course & will start the DSC-2 registration process as soon as I get my DSC-1 cert.
 

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