DSC 1 Should there be more content

oowee

Well-Known Member
#1
First let me say I am new to stalking (1 1/2 years 30 animals) and have just completed my DSC1, which was very worthwhile and enjoyable.
I do however, having completed the course, wonder if it provides what some might expect or all that a new stalker might need. I understood that the purpose was to equip someone new or with relatively limited experience, all that they need to go out to successfully stalk deer.

According to BDS:- DSC1 provides a comprehensive guide to deer stalking techniques and management. The DSC1 is the foundation of deer skills development.
It does that by testing:- General Knowledge of the 6 species of deer found in Great Britain and Northern Ireland
Deer legislation
Ballistics
Deer identification
Safety
Shooting
Large Game Trained Hunter – knowledge of the inspection of carcasses and the legal requirements

Whilst I accept that all of the examined content, as listed, forms part of the skill set that I need as a new stalker, there appears to me to be a gap between the knowledge imparted and the course objectives, of stalking technique and management. Whilst the course is certainly 'a foundation of deer skills development' there are elements that I might expect in the course that are not taught.

For example.
1.The elements for making a successful stalk; Wind direction, land assessment, likely locations, equipment list, shooting aid's.
2. Carcass management; how to undertake a gralloch in order to inspect the carcass, extraction and removal, equipment list, knife selection.
3. Management, Over shooting, disturbance, cull targets, management plans.

Am I expecting too much, or have I missed something?


 

Tim.243

Well-Known Member
#2
First let me say I am new to stalking (1 1/2 years 30 animals) and have just completed my DSC1, which was very worthwhile and enjoyable.
I do however, having completed the course, wonder if it provides what some might expect or all that a new stalker might need. I understood that the purpose was to equip someone new or with relatively limited experience, all that they need to go out to successfully stalk deer.

According to BDS:- DSC1 provides a comprehensive guide to deer stalking techniques and management. The DSC1 is the foundation of deer skills development.
It does that by testing:- General Knowledge of the 6 species of deer found in Great Britain and Northern Ireland
Deer legislation
Ballistics
Deer identification
Safety
Shooting
Large Game Trained Hunter – knowledge of the inspection of carcasses and the legal requirements

Whilst I accept that all of the examined content, as listed, forms part of the skill set that I need as a new stalker, there appears to me to be a gap between the knowledge imparted and the course objectives, of stalking technique and management. Whilst the course is certainly 'a foundation of deer skills development' there are elements that I might expect in the course that are not taught.

For example.
1.The elements for making a successful stalk; Wind direction, land assessment, likely locations, equipment list, shooting aid's.
2. Carcass management; how to undertake a gralloch in order to inspect the carcass, extraction and removal, equipment list, knife selection.
3. Management, Over shooting, disturbance, cull targets, management plans.

Am I expecting too much, or have I missed something?


Far to much info for people to take in over 2/3 days.

I taught diving for many years, the people who I taught in the UK over 5 weeks class and pool faired much better than ones who had learnt over a weekend.

Also a lot of people don't do very well in the class room as it might be their first time back in 20/30/40 years.

Tim.243
 

paul o'

Well-Known Member
#3
IMO it should also inc .
A look see and smell and understand how to deal with the deer once all your knowledge and that bit of paper has led you to a stalk and acted on now you are face to face with the deer that you have just shot , or even just what to do once the shot has been taken .. as not all have ever shot a rifle at something live let alone understand how to chop one up .
 

Rory

Well-Known Member
#4
I don't think you're far wrong, there was a similar 'list' I had made up after DSC 1. However, I think that it has to be as short as it is to find the balance between getting people to actually get on it (time commitment) and not be more expensive than it is (financial commitment). In my opinion it serves a good purpose in gettjng someone taught and assessed the very basics and predominantly theory. This is a good base and I think that there is an opportunity for an inbetween course - though others may argue that this is filled by actual stalking!
 

Tim.243

Well-Known Member
#5
IMO it should also inc .
A look see and smell and understand how to deal with the deer once all your knowledge and that bit of paper has led you to a stalk and acted on now you are face to face with the deer that you have just shot , or even just what to do once the shot has been taken .. as not all have ever shot a rifle at something live let alone understand how to chop one up .

Paul, how long before the font of all things DSC1 turns up? lol

Tim.243
 

oowee

Well-Known Member
#6
Waiting with baited breath. ;)
Just to get in first there is a lot in the course that could come out to make it more practical. Tell me about stalking, what to do when it's on the ground. What law I need to know.
Maybe i don't need to learn closed seasons, identification, history. These are all useful but things that maybe i get sorted for the species I go to shoot.
 

zambezi

Well-Known Member
#7
... Whilst the course is certainly 'a foundation of deer skills development' there are elements that I might expect in the course that are not taught.

For example.
1.The elements for making a successful stalk; Wind direction, land assessment, likely locations, equipment list, shooting aid's.
2. Carcass management; how to undertake a gralloch in order to inspect the carcass, extraction and removal, equipment list, knife selection.
3. Management, Over shooting, disturbance, cull targets, management plans.

Am I expecting too much, or have I missed something?


I did my DSC1 with BDS. That course contained elements of all three items you list as being omitted from the syllabus. I agree content was not exhaustive, but in addition to theoretic high-seat and stalking scenarios, there was a simulated walk and stalk with appropriate questions around backstop, cover, wind. Also the presenter performed a gralloch on a deer shot earlier that morning with detailed info and pauses for all to review the objects making up the teaching points. Not sure if we just lucked in with that presenter, but it was more thorough than you describe.
 

springer

Well-Known Member
#8
All the points you have highlighted ARE indeed covered within the BDS Dsc level 1 course, which makes for quite an intense course but one that delivers on EVERY level you have mentioned and more.
Marketplace competition has forced this into a 3 day course rather than the original 4 day course which I guess has led to SOME providers possibly not covering ALL aspects????
I feel that the BDS still offers the best DSC level 1 course currently available .
 

Monkey Spanker

Well-Known Member
#11
First let me say I am new to stalking (1 1/2 years 30 animals) and have just completed my DSC1, which was very worthwhile and enjoyable.
I do however, having completed the course, wonder if it provides what some might expect or all that a new stalker might need. I understood that the purpose was to equip someone new or with relatively limited experience, all that they need to go out to successfully stalk deer.

According to BDS:- DSC1 provides a comprehensive guide to deer stalking techniques and management. The DSC1 is the foundation of deer skills development.
It does that by testing:- General Knowledge of the 6 species of deer found in Great Britain and Northern Ireland
Deer legislation
Ballistics
Deer identification
Safety
Shooting
Large Game Trained Hunter – knowledge of the inspection of carcasses and the legal requirements

Whilst I accept that all of the examined content, as listed, forms part of the skill set that I need as a new stalker, there appears to me to be a gap between the knowledge imparted and the course objectives, of stalking technique and management. Whilst the course is certainly 'a foundation of deer skills development' there are elements that I might expect in the course that are not taught.

For example.
1.The elements for making a successful stalk; Wind direction, land assessment, likely locations, equipment list, shooting aid's.
2. Carcass management; how to undertake a gralloch in order to inspect the carcass, extraction and removal, equipment list, knife selection.
3. Management, Over shooting, disturbance, cull targets, management plans.

Am I expecting too much, or have I missed something?


I think you probably are expecting a bit too much mate to be honest! The course is only 3 days long and only half that is allocated to teaching, with the other half taken up by assessment. Deer stalking is a vast subject which you will never learn completely, so to expect to learn all that you have, and that which you list in just 3 days is not really possible?
You list 3 things you would have liked to be included.
1.The elements for making a successful stalk; Wind direction, land assessment, likely locations, equipment list, shooting aid's.
Equipment and shooting aids should be covered in the course and practised on the shooting assessment? Teaching people to stalk in the classroom is never going to happen! Too many variables such as species, terrain, etc.. You simply can't teach experience!
2. Carcass management; how to undertake a gralloch in order to inspect the carcass, extraction and removal, equipment list, knife selection.
This should have been covered, normally by watching a DVD of a gralloch/carcass inspection? Equipment/knife selection as above.
3. Management, Over shooting, disturbance, cull targets, management plans.
This is a bit more advanced for a novice stalker which the DSC 1 course is aimed at. This information is covered on the Deer Managers Course.

At the end of the day, there is only so much you can learn in the classroom! DSC 1 is designed to give you the underpinning knowledge to get you started with an understanding of deer, safety, food hygiene, and the law. You can only cover and learn so much in just 3 days, and most candidates are way past their best learning phase in life!!
MS
 

Essex stalker

Well-Known Member
#12
First let me say I am new to stalking (1 1/2 years 30 animals) and have just completed my DSC1, which was very worthwhile and enjoyable.
I do however, having completed the course, wonder if it provides what some might expect or all that a new stalker might need. I understood that the purpose was to equip someone new or with relatively limited experience, all that they need to go out to successfully stalk deer.

According to BDS:- DSC1 provides a comprehensive guide to deer stalking techniques and management. The DSC1 is the foundation of deer skills development.
It does that by testing:- General Knowledge of the 6 species of deer found in Great Britain and Northern Ireland
Deer legislation
Ballistics
Deer identification
Safety
Shooting
Large Game Trained Hunter – knowledge of the inspection of carcasses and the legal requirements

Whilst I accept that all of the examined content, as listed, forms part of the skill set that I need as a new stalker, there appears to me to be a gap between the knowledge imparted and the course objectives, of stalking technique and management. Whilst the course is certainly 'a foundation of deer skills development' there are elements that I might expect in the course that are not taught.

For example.
1.The elements for making a successful stalk; Wind direction, land assessment, likely locations, equipment list, shooting aid's.
2. Carcass management; how to undertake a gralloch in order to inspect the carcass, extraction and removal, equipment list, knife selection.
3. Management, Over shooting, disturbance, cull targets, management plans.

Am I expecting too much, or have I missed something?



if you want to cover many of these subjects you could go on and do the deer management course once you have completed your DSC1, that last 5 days if I remember correctly and covers things in much greater detail
 

Chasey

Well-Known Member
#13
Of the list we did some of the elements of 1: Ie land assessment, equipment lists and shooting aids.

RE2:We had three actual gralochs demonstrated with associated internal ecxternal inspection tagging and taking to larder. We also discussed knife selection and techniques for using a conventional knife. Dave did everything with a Moyra knife.

RE3: Deer management was not covered and I agree this is a totally diferent subject.




Re visiting No1 having done a bit over various terains, id say the successful stalk but is taught by pro guides and personal experience. Learning a bit of land is a big part of the fun for me
 

Tim.243

Well-Known Member
#14
This is a bit more advanced for a novice stalker which the DSC 1 course is aimed at. This information is covered on the Deer Managers Course.

At the end of the day, there is only so much you can learn in the classroom! DSC 1 is designed to give you the underpinning knowledge to get you started with an understanding of deer, safety, food hygiene, and the law. You can only cover and learn so much in just 3 days, and most candidates are way past their best learning phase in life!!
MS[/QUOTE]

I am sure I replied earlier....lol :zzz:

Far to much info for people to take in over 2/3 days.

I taught diving for many years, the people who I taught in the UK over 5 weeks class and pool faired much better than ones who had learnt over a weekend.

Also a lot of people don't do very well in the class room as it might be their first time back in 20/30/40 years.

Tim.243
 

Heym SR20

Well-Known Member
#15
When I did my DSC1 at the beginning of the century it was over three weekends, and did cover a lot of additional stuff. I think people have generally forgotten about education and focus is now on passing a test in as short space of time as possible.

By comparison the German Jagdschein takes six months to a year to complete. Yes it does cover all types of quarry, but everything seems to be at much greater depth of understanding.
 

Chasey

Well-Known Member
#16
When I did my DSC1 at the beginning of the century it was over three weekends, and did cover a lot of additional stuff. I think people have generally forgotten about education and focus is now on passing a test in as short space of time as possible.

By comparison the German Jagdschein takes six months to a year to complete. Yes it does cover all types of quarry, but everything seems to be at much greater depth of understanding.

I came from a diving background where courses were 4-6 days and could cost you £1000+ To get to the level I was at in diveing (Full trimix CCR & CCR cave diver) you'd need to spend over £10,000 on courses.

Needless to say I didn't bother doing a lot of them. I only did what was essential to get in the door for gas fills, deep dives and cave dives.

Some people want to be taught everything in one go. Id rather be taught the essentials for safety and shown the basics and then enjoy the luring curve of finding out for my self how its done.

Another aside is that some of the stuff you get taught on courses doesn't actualy work in the real world

WHat people sometimes forget is a course was designed by a small group pf people who think their way is the best and are bias by their own set of circumstance.
 

Essex stalker

Well-Known Member
#17
I came from a diving background where courses were 4-6 days and could cost you £1000+ To get to the level I was at in diveing (Full trimix CCR & CCR cave diver) you'd need to spend over £10,000 on courses.

Needless to say I didn't bother doing a lot of them. I only did what was essential to get in the door for gas fills, deep dives and cave dives.

Some people want to be taught everything in one go. Id rather be taught the essentials for safety and shown the basics and then enjoy the luring curve of finding out for my self how its done.

Another aside is that some of the stuff you get taught on courses doesn't actualy work in the real world

WHat people sometimes forget is a course was designed by a small group pf people who think their way is the best and are bias by their own set of circumstance.
That's why Paddi become so popular, in my experience it got you n the water and qualified far quicker than doing it with a BSAC club, mind you that doesn't necessarily make it better. The training that you received with BSAC was very good and very comprehensive
 

Tim.243

Well-Known Member
#18
I came from a diving background where courses were 4-6 days and could cost you £1000+ To get to the level I was at in diveing (Full trimix CCR & CCR cave diver) you'd need to spend over £10,000 on courses.

Needless to say I didn't bother doing a lot of them. I only did what was essential to get in the door for gas fills, deep dives and cave dives.

Some people want to be taught everything in one go. Id rather be taught the essentials for safety and shown the basics and then enjoy the luring curve of finding out for my self how its done.

Another aside is that some of the stuff you get taught on courses doesn't actualy work in the real world

WHat people sometimes forget is a course was designed by a small group pf people who think their way is the best and are bias by their own set of circumstance.



That is one of the best quotes relative to many a thread on SD...

I taught the Padi, Bsac & Tdi systems, Padi's badge was to shiny, Bsac although good was influenced too much by personal input, and for the Tdi normoxic and hypoxic courses you needed to be right on your game other wise it was a waste of peoples time and money...

Back to what I wrote earlier, adding more would be a case of people understanding less...

Tim.243
 
#19
There seems to be a common thread here. I taught diving in a former life, a brilliant way to meet like minded people. I have also just completed, successfully, my Dsc1 with BDS. It was also a good opportunity to meet like minded souls.
Going back to the original thought, it's a bit like the driving test, you only start to learn driving after taking the test.
I also taught driving by the way:norty:
 
#20
I didn't teach diving. Cos I just wanted to go diving! :D. I hated going into deco. Bored.com.
Anyway. All has been said. DSC1 is your start into deer qualifications. Like driving, you really learn when you are out there after your test.
Different deer react in different ways, so it would be hard to go into detail about animal habits and management. Do I care about Sika and Reds when I never get to shoot them? Munties and roe on the other hand.

you could always see if someone will take you out and teach you the ropes. I had some nice people from here take me out to help me with my gralloching skills.
I hate classroom teaching. It just doesn't go into my head very well. Mind you. That could be said for most things.
 

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