DSC 2 Gralloch disposal ?
- Thread starter liongeorge
- Start date
Overlay
Well-Known Member
yep
ive got NTX all sorted for the .308 and the .222. Just in case I get the call
Very surprised on the consistency in both calibres, .308 is spot on less than 1/2 inch difference on paper, and carcase damage is ok on fallow and Roe, using the 222 NTX on Canada geese and Muntjac on wetland areas and for foxing it’s turned out a tidy consistent round
i guess it will come eventually but we all should do our bit to slow the inevitable down, some FC areas rolled it out a couple of April’s ago with the Rangers - don’t know if they are still using NTX.
liongeorge
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the replies guys....the lead issue in my case perhaps deserves a seperate thread though! So effetively there is no definative answer to this question. Perhaps an answer along the lines that gralloch should be disposed of on a site by site basis dependant on public access and the land owners wishes taking into account water courses etc
Odders
Well-Known Member
It's not lead shot that has been an issue with raptors in the US & condors in particular; it's lead fragments in gut piles from bullets.
Study from California here.
kenbro
Well-Known Member
Anti shooters will say anything in Komifornia. I think lead bullets are to be banned there from next year?
Thin end of the wedge to ban shooting altogether.
Ken.
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Odders
Well-Known Member
Unfortunately the noise made by the antis can often obscure very real issues.
There is solid evidence, including the lead levels & gut contents of dead condors, which shows the problem to be very real indeed.
Yes I’d agree
I’d encourage the use of lead free ammunition but cost and availability can be an issue
I’d respectfully also add one of the answers includes “heads and feet” being left with the gralloch which in my view is poor practice. It’s best the head and feet stay attached until you get back to the larder
Forestry Commission Licences and Woodland Trust agreements in my experience stipulate heads and feet aren’t left on site. Best of luck.
SaOsborne
Well-Known Member
I have allways practised head and feed come away with you, either on or off the animal, Gralloch is placed out of sight usually in a stump hole or simular or in thick bramble which I seem to enjoy plenty of. Either way I have not had a complaint yet from the public who use the paths or the land managers.
The technical answer when I did my DSC2 was, Buried 1 meter deep away from watercourses, but the assesor and I had a brief discourse on this and quickly dismissed as being impractical, when it was advised, a burrow, stump or any hole away from water is fine.
The technical answer when I did my DSC2 was, Buried 1 meter deep away from watercourses, but the assesor and I had a brief discourse on this and quickly dismissed as being impractical, when it was advised, a burrow, stump or any hole away from water is fine.
Hide it, bury it, do what you like with it, some wee beasty will dig it up, find it, eat it.
The effects on raptors of lead shot or bullets from carcases and carrion have been documented ad infinitum.
there is nothing open to interpretation.
I could quote numerous scientific papers from California to Scotland
They do not magically expel it without absorption.
Simple answer if you don't want to leave lead in the environment.....
dont use it...
We do a fine selection of non lead ammunition and bullets
The reasons FOR outweigh those AGAINST by some margin
Accuracy? Significantly sub MOA
Terminal effect? Outstanding results across all U.K. Deer species
Carcase Quality? Significantly improved, less shrapnel, less sub cutaneous and intra muscular blood clots.
Ricochet risk? Recent impartial study concluded "no significant increase in risk over lead cup and core"
Cost? Same as or in some cases LESS than a box of mid to premium lead ammunition.
97-100% weight retention
you bullet is in the ground
not the carcase
its the whole point....literally
The effects on raptors of lead shot or bullets from carcases and carrion have been documented ad infinitum.
there is nothing open to interpretation.
I could quote numerous scientific papers from California to Scotland
They do not magically expel it without absorption.
Simple answer if you don't want to leave lead in the environment.....
dont use it...
We do a fine selection of non lead ammunition and bullets
The reasons FOR outweigh those AGAINST by some margin
Accuracy? Significantly sub MOA
Terminal effect? Outstanding results across all U.K. Deer species
Carcase Quality? Significantly improved, less shrapnel, less sub cutaneous and intra muscular blood clots.
Ricochet risk? Recent impartial study concluded "no significant increase in risk over lead cup and core"
Cost? Same as or in some cases LESS than a box of mid to premium lead ammunition.
97-100% weight retention
you bullet is in the ground
not the carcase
its the whole point....literally
timbrayford
Well-Known Member
Aren't there twist rate issues with .243 & copper? Nosler recommend a rate of 1:9 or faster for their E-Tip, but many .243 barrels seem to be 1:10.
I'm not criticising the environmental soundness of using copper rather than whether gun & ammunition makers are properly coordinating on this.
timbrayford
Well-Known Member
The first 5 posts dealt with this perfectly until someone wanted to talk about lead & raptors
I ask a guy who did his first DSC2 stalk with a Muntjac on the ground under the BSAC scheme yesterday...
His reply was, " half was buried in the wood, some went back to the larder for inspection and disposal"
Tim.243
His reply was, " half was buried in the wood, some went back to the larder for inspection and disposal"
Tim.243
Odders
Well-Known Member
I found a real issue with Barnes 150gr TSX in my .1:10 rifled .270.
They plain wouldn't stabilise at any velocity & keyholing targets when they managed to hit them at 100-300yds.
I'd like to have a barrel with a 1:8 twist in order to use what I know is a very effective bullet but the cost & wait are both excessive...
You will never see a 100gr 6mm/.243 non lead bullet stabilise in a 1:10" twist barrel sadly
Just not possible due to the length
The .243 was never designed with 100gr in mind
Its the poor choices of minimum weights and calibres in the Deer Act that cause the issue in Scotland and Northern Ireland
Outside of this anomaly pretty much all other standard loads are fine.
TTSX and GMX suffer with twist issues due to the boat tail and ballistic tip increasing comparative length.
Flat base bullets do not.
liongeorge
Well-Known Member
timbrayford
Well-Known Member
Thanks Alan tried to get it back on track a while ago ...doesn't seem to be working
What have you actually done so far with the grallochs from the deer that you have shot?
timbrayford
Well-Known Member
I think that the Nosler Etips may be 90 grain, Barnes TTSX are 80 grains and they make no mention of twist rates - thinking primarily in terms of England stalking rather than elsewhere with the 100grn minimum.
Thanks Liongeorge.
I had a similar experience on here a few years ago that made me curtail my involvement in what I thought was a great site.
I asked for some info on bullets and made the unforgivable error of mentioning "HEADS" and some toser ended up asking did I hang around american military toilets.....
When I kind of told him to go away in jerky movements he started on about having a degree in military history.
Again, totally unbelievable, so I usually keep away. BTW I am an AW and if you want advise on gralloch, PM me.
I had a similar experience on here a few years ago that made me curtail my involvement in what I thought was a great site.
I asked for some info on bullets and made the unforgivable error of mentioning "HEADS" and some toser ended up asking did I hang around american military toilets.....
When I kind of told him to go away in jerky movements he started on about having a degree in military history.
Again, totally unbelievable, so I usually keep away. BTW I am an AW and if you want advise on gralloch, PM me.
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