dsc level 1/2 - why take?

[paul k]

I have very mixed views on this and agree with a lot of what's been said.

As it currently stands the law does not require a deer stalker to have DSC 1 or anything else and we can argue about the rights and wrongs of this all day long but the Home Office guidance does not require it and the Police therefore have no right to require a potential deer stalker to produce DSC 1. My inclination is to resist any pressure to get one simply because of this as I do not want it to become de facto a requirement.

If the law is changed then that's a different thing.

I am not in a position to comment on the quality of the course as I've not been on one but having taken the trouble to get the DVDs for the benefit of my education I saw almost nothing that was new to me.

DCS 1 does not make a stalker a good shot or a good stalker but it might help them to realise their own limitations and not be a bad one and, if they can't shoot straight in range conditions, they shouldn't be stalking.

My own opinion for what it is worth is that a new stalker applying for his first FAC (for deer calibres) would be well advised to do DSC 1 as he will gain valuable knowledge and have his field craft and shooting skills tested for his own confidence's sake. I would not have a problem if the law was changed to require new FAC applicants for deer calibres to have DSC 1.

I do not believe that stalkers like myself should be required to have DSC 1 to renew their FAC as my 20 years experience and five previous FAC renewals should be enough. If I take the test it should be a matter for my own conscience and education and not a legal requirement for my FAC. I would personally really begrudge the high cost of getting the qualification as it represents quite a few days stalking for me on an already tight budget just to get a bit of fairly meaningless paper.

It's also worth pointing out that anyone with a rifle in a deer calibre that is used exclusively for foxing will not be subject to any education or regulation whatsoever as they presumably cannot be asked to have DSC 1 being specific to deer rather than the general use of a large calibre rifle. This means that the only benefit of DSC 1 as far as the police are concerned must be around deer related issues and not the use of a rifle.

To answer the original question I would only ever get DSC 1 because I needed it if I was legally required to have it to get my FAC or the landowner or stalker required me to have it to get stalking and I suspect that is the case with many on this forum.

 

[MarkH]

I always get a bit worried about people 'self assessing' there own competency. If any stalker wanted to stalk unaccompanied on my land I would insist on seeing their DSC Level 1 irrepective of experience. It will not make up for years of quality experience but I have a minimum standard to work on. How do I know if the stalker knows what TB looks like or carcass handling.

Mark

 

[paul k]

I always get a bit worried about people 'self assessing' there own competency. If any stalker wanted to stalk unaccompanied on my land I would insist on seeing their DSC Level 1 irrepective of experience. It will not make up for years of quality experience but I have a minimum standard to work on. How do I know if the stalker knows what TB looks like or carcass handling.

Mark

I can appreciate your point of view Mark but having DCS 1 doesn't actually prove a great deal in reality. There are millions of people in the UK who have had their driving competance tested and certified after a long period of training and yet we have drunken driving, using mobiles on the move, deaths, speeding, dangerous driving and other bad practices from these "licenced" drivers. There is an oft quoted point of view that you never drive better than the day that you passed your test and the same may be true of DSC 1.

I'm not sure that I would rate someone with DSC 1 and maybe half a dozen stalks in a year as safer and better qualified on my ground as someone with 10 years experience and I would not take DSC 1 as proof of very much at all. I would certainly not take DSC 1 as any indication that they could shoot straight, especially in field conditions, and they would still need to put a few shots in the 4" circle off a rest and prove to me that they had the right skills to identify target animals and the right attitude to deer.

Your very valid points about recognising TB really have no bearing on whether the police should or could insist on DCS 1 from a firearms point of view as non-deerstalkers would not be subject to any such testing for the same firearms.

Luckily I have access to ground where my experience and the fact that the landowners/stalkers have seen me in action are enough for me to be welcomed stalking unaccompanied.

 

[sikamalc]

Its interesting to see that a great many who have posted think the sameway about Level1 and 2.

What I will add, and again in agreement with some posters, is that most FA Depts are now asking for Level 1 before issuing a new FA ticket. Now I know this is not Law, but as we all know it is up to each Chief Constable to apply the law? or at least this is what I have been told. This is certainly the case in Kent. To a certain extent I am in agreement, however the other side of me disagrees, because most people cant get into the sport because the costs involved in taking Level 1, let alone kitting yourself out. It also discourages younger people from taking up the sport, and this is not good.

Much more should be done to encourage younger folk to be involved in the sport, and shooting in general.

However I have never heard of them demanding applicants for renewal to take Level 1 before renewing a certificate. This is worrying, and I for one would be totally against it.

Like it or not guys, Level 1 and 2 is hear to stay. I have also heard that discussions were on the boil for a Level 3!!! but I think this may have died the death ( thank god). If you are taking Level 1 in the near future, I wish you good luck, it will stand you in good stead. But it does not make you a stalker, experience and time will see to that, which again I hope you achieve. The effort is really worth it

 

[stone]

well there is still something we may hav overlooked here concerning DSC1
the legal side of things ,
if someone without a DSC1 has an accident or injures some one else the police would probaly be in the direct firing line and lots of questions and accusations thrown their way
whilst
someone with a DSC1 certificate will of been examined by an approved governing body(basc/bds)
some one to share the blame as so to say
we all hav to cover our own backs in this day and age
this may be firearms departments way
just a thought
as many employers safe gaurd themselves against blame in pretty much the same way, a certificate goes a long way in the courtroom

 

[MarkH]

Interesting analogy Paul. Would you get in a car driven by some-one who refused to do a driving test.
If I have to allow a stalker onto my land to manage the roe and have to make a choice between someone has 15 years of stalking under their belt and another with a DSC level 1 and 15 years of experience I would choose the one with the DSC. Then if there is an accident I did my best to see the stalker was appropriatly trained when the legal **** hits the fan.

Having been in the military I would like to see proper basic training in the safe handling and use of firearms. A 243 or 308 is not a toy to hand over to someone just because they would like one. In principal I have no problem with the police requesting a DSC level 1 on for a new applicant. What we need is consistency is between the police authorities.

In addition if one is worried about spending £250 on a qualification to start hunting then think of another hobby. Hunting unless you own your own land is going to be expensive so the novice is going to have to bite the bullet on that one early on. DSC level ii as a cash cow is another matter.

mark

 

[Pete E]

Deleted by User

 

[stone]

hi pete
in this day and age who knows what each firearms deparment think as they determine the law as they see fit even though they read from the same book
mine was just a thought, as my employer keeps sending me on courses not to improve my working ability , but just to save him money and protect him from legal hassles
but you hav made a good point here mark is a lease holder i wonder if he will post his stalking prices and if us DSC1 holders will get a discount

 

[300wsm]

xxxxxxxxxx

 

[sikamalc]

I have been told that anyone holding Level 2 can be a witness. Is this true?

 

[Dickie]

300wsm

A very noble offer.
I'm glad I've got my level 2 as I've seen what you can eat.

Only joking mate.

 

[300wsm]

xxxxxxxxxx

 

[MarkH]

Hi Stone

Requirements

1. Shoot a 5 shot 2" group at 200m off my Land Rover bonnet.
2. Hold a DSC level 1.
3. Able to carry 2 roe deer back off the hillside approx 1.5 km very rough ground
4.Make sure the lid stays down on the composting toilet.
5.Able to read the wind accuratly
6.Enjoy a good whiskey and cigar
7.Plastic rifles tolerated but wood by preference.
8.This is management shooting so dont get picky just practical.
9.No Head shooting
10. No blown up carcasses stow those NBTs away.

Otherwise no charge by invitation only

Mark

 

[stone]

blast mark
no 6 is the only stumbling block as i am a non smoking, port drinker
the rest we could comprimise on

 

[MarkH]

If you dont inhale you are quite safe. Ask any politician

Mark

 

[bobt]

Number 6 was a problem for me too, dont mind others smoking, never wanted to myself, and after a particularly boozy weekend on the scotch, I barf if I have more than a couple of em now,

 

[Beowulf]

Bugger! I fell at the first hurdle, the 200 metre 2inch grouping of five shots!

 

[MarkH]

Here is a pic of a bit of the property. Totally quad bike resistant terrain and loads of places for the roe to hide. It took 18 months to work out how to hunt this patch

The rocky outcrop 1/2 way is about 400m away. Obviously I do not shoot that far but being accurate at 200m weather and wind permitting is a priority.

Last time I was up there I was enjoying a Romeo y Juiletta so much I barfed to

Mark

 

[stone]

that realy looks likes a nice place mark
not sure the pines you hav planted were the right tree(i think you said pines on another posting) nordmania are better as roe like to chew the tops out of them, a few strategacaly placed plantings ie close to the road if there is one saves a lot of walking

 

[MarkH]

We planted 1000 Scots pine and 1000 monterey pine. The monterey look like the better food for roe.
At present I am about to launch a 'scorched earth policy' on the little darlings until the bracken reappears.

Mark