DSC2 and AW recommendation

[ging125]

I have just completed my 3 ICR’s as part of my DSC2. I struggled a little at the beginning trying to get an AW who had a sufficient number of deer, could facilitate my dates, was reasonably local with good access and didn’t charge a fortune.
I ended up going with a recommendation after I posted here on the stalking directory.
I contacted Ben Dorrington(flyfisherman) who was great with all communications prior to meeting and throughout. He put me at ease straight away on meeting and was very easy to get on with. The ground I stalked was just outside Thirsk, the A1 allowed for a relatively smooth and quick journey.
Outside of the assessments Ben was always very happy to answer any questions, discuss scenarios how to deal with them and offer feedback after assessments. Ben has a great knowledge of deer, is practically minded and has great resource.
Although I didn’t shoot anything on the first two stalks for various reasons (out of season or out of range) I observed lots of deer on both outings.
During the next two outings I completed my remaining ICR’s including the larder components.
I would highly recommend Ben as an AW and for any stalking in the Yorkshire area, I will certainly be booking more stalking with him.

 

[ben0850]

Thanks for posting this, really useful. I’ve just registered for my level 2 and was deliberating about AW’s... I know Ben from one of his gralloch courses but my permissions are north of the border so was in a quandary!

 

[widows son]

Little thing to point out Gents the Aw doesn't supply deer or land, in all honest the stalks should be carried out on your own land, that you know well enough to know roughly where your deer are at anytime of the year, so you stalk and find deer.

I have completed many AW stalks for patrons of this site and others, but I certainly don't want folk coming in and shooting my sport, as I keep reactive deer management allowing the ground to support minimal deer ie minimal and acceptable browsing .

 

[Dexter]

Little thing to point out Gents the Aw doesn't supply deer or land, in all honest the stalks should be carried out on your own land, that you know well enough to know roughly where your deer are at anytime of the year, so you stalk and find deer.

I have completed many AW stalks for patrons of this site and others, but I certainly don't want folk coming in and shooting my sport, as I keep reactive deer management allowing the ground to support minimal deer ie minimal and acceptable browsing .

What an AW provides is up to them WS. However, no where in the DSC2 does it state that it has to be done on the candidates own land. You have just made that up and it's not helpful at all to future candidates. Stalking on other peoples land doesn't make it less honest at all. You either fulfill the laid down criteria or you don't. It really is that simple!

 

[widows son]

No you’ve just read what you wanted to .

Again for you, AW can shoot there own deer, it is up to you to supply your deer not the AW I get this all the time only a few times have I been asked to go to there land, seems to be folk think AWs have huge swaths of land with hundreds of deer , something on the wish list .

However there are a few who shoot over deer farms and walled estates etc who have deer to cull and offer them for sale .

 

[norma 308]

No you’ve just read what you wanted to .

Again for you, AW can shoot there own deer, it is up to you to supply your deer not the AW I get this all the time only a few times have I been asked to go to there land, seems to be folk think AWs have huge swaths of land with hundreds of deer , something on the wish list .

However there are a few who shoot over deer farms and walled estates etc who have deer to cull and offer them for sale .

i tend to agree I’d have felt at a big disadvantage had I not been on my own patch ! It would be difficult to lead a stalk not having a clue where you are , I know of places where a couple of stalks to get to know at least a route would be required pre dsc2
saying that for some folk deer do tend to hold their hands up and roll over deer magnets!

 

[Dexter]

No you’ve just read what you wanted to .

Again for you, AW can shoot there own deer, it is up to you to supply your deer not the AW I get this all the time only a few times have I been asked to go to there land, seems to be folk think AWs have huge swaths of land with hundreds of deer , something on the wish list .

However there are a few who shoot over deer farms and walled estates etc who have deer to cull and offer them for sale .

No WS, I have read your post which is full of inaccuracies. It's up to the candidate to stalk, cull, gralloch etc 3 deer. If they're shot on the AW's ground that is absolutely fine so to say that "The AW doesn't supply deer or land" in many cases is not true. Just because you don't, it doesn't mean that none do. Provided the candidate is legally allowed to shoot deer on the land all is good.
Lots of AW's do indeed have swaths of land and lots of deer to witness stalks on and advertise as much. I know one or two myself. Plenty of professionals who advertise on here have exactly that.
It's not even a requirement for an AW to be able to shoot a deer so you're wrong on that too. Maybe they CAN'T shoot their own deer at all? Maybe they don't even have an FAC. You don't need one to be an AW as far as I'm aware. You certainly don't need to carry a rifle whilst witnessing a stalk.
Sure, in an ideal world it would be great if each and every one of us owned 10,000+ acres of deer populated land. We don't live in an ideal world though so I fail to see the point of your post at all. I just see it as confusing to future candidates and not helpful at all.
What the last line of your post is supposed to mean is anyone's guess but appears to have been written simply to start an argument? A deer farm will almost certainly not fulfil the criteria of DSC2 as you well know.

 

[Dexter]

i tend to agree I’d have felt at a big disadvantage had I not been on my own patch ! It would be difficult to lead a stalk not having a clue where you are , I know of places where a couple of stalks to get to know at least a route would be required pre dsc2
saying that for some folk deer do tend to hold their hands up and roll over deer magnets!

Remember norma, you don't need to hold the stalking rights to know the land. I could take you to quite a few places that hold deer. If I was given permission to shoot the deer I could make a pretty good hand of it. Google Earth and Ordance survey maps can give you a good head start on land that you have never stalked on before. Roe and munties can be quite predictable. If there are loads of munties in the woods and loads of pheasant feeders along rides it wouldn't take a genius to know where the munties might be found, familiar with the land or not. A bit of deer knowledge and an eye on the weather can tip the odds into your favour as you well know.
Again, I'm not saying that going on to unfamiliar land is ideal but we don't live in the ideal. We have to make do with what we have. It you want something badly enough you will be forced to manage to succeed.

 

[widows son]

You still don't get it simple this time. Why should a level two candidate have to go to an AWs ground, when he has his own ground and deer to stalk and shoot as stated by the original poster, he stated that his problem was finding an AW with sufficient deer on his ground. why is the level two candidate not shooting his own deer, the terms and conditions of holding a Firearms certificate is that you have lands to shoot over.

As you rightly state you know Professionals at the game which have this as there business in a business accruement you are selling a produce the Approved Witness is part of that produce where having a sellable produce (Deer & Land) is a need full requirement


I know all to well what a AW must do ive done enough of them. and yes on my land on the occasion but many folk prefer to go to there own land which the know to stalk.

The last line means just what it says, and you can and they do lots of level two stalks over farmed and park deer, which is acceptable its also acceptable to shoot them from a highseat doe box etc etc there are may disabled stalkers who do just that.

The level two is to emulate the theory of the level one bringing together all, the aspects of the deer code and best practice, health & hygiene and health & safety being the two main elements.

 

[Dexter]

No WS, it's you who doesn't get it. What you posted was utter rubbish. Yes, the OP has got his own land but many don't. The terms and conditions DON'T require that you have your own land! You could only be taking paid stalks which is a perfectly satisfactory reason to hold an FAC. There are also all sorts of reasons why a candidate may not be able to conduct a level two stalk on their own land even if they do have some. Their land may be only suitable for shooting deer from highseats for example. BTW, shooting deer from highseats is NOT acceptable for abled bodied candidates unless they simply climbed the seat to get a better angle. Ambushing deer from a highseat is not allowed for able bodied stalkers, fact! You didn't mention that bit which again is worrying if you're seriously an AW? Candidates may also want to conduct their IR's over a period when the deer on their cull plan are not in season. They could perhaps be running out of time due to previous illness. The list is endless! The fact that you can't think of any is not a good reflection on you. Broaden your mind WS and please stop posting confusing stuff that needs constant correction and more accurate explanations.
I'm well aware of what the DSC2 is. Why did you even feel the need to state the obvious in that last line! I have enough eggs of my own to suck thank you!

 

[G0JSM]

I’m going to comment on this and run the risk of getting slagged for not knowing what I’m talking about. I do not have dsc2 and at moment have no intention of spending money on getting it although I admit my dsc1 is a three figure numbers I’ve had it a while and did it as requested by my lease. One or two questions come to mind on reading all of the above. You must prove you can stalk a deer while with the aw not all stalks result in a cull is it not a case of proving that you can move quietly while seeing all and identifying your target. Not all my stalks result in a kill and not all will result in a kill while with your witness. So we’ve proven to the witness we are capable of stalking why then can you not be sat in a high seat to do the kill. Common sense is it not. I would have thought that most people who advertise and are providing a witness service want the candidate to succeed as his reputation is also at stake

 

[Klenchblaize]

I'm going to show my ignorance in such matters too:

"A deer farm will almost certainly not fulfil the criteria of DSC2 as you well know."

What is the difference between a deer farm and deer park?

K

 

[baguio]

What should have been said GOJSM was that highseat culls don't cover the stalking aspect of the ICR.

 

[Ronin]

If anyone needs an AW who has access to deer on their ground, I wouldnt hesitate to recommend Rob Aitken who manages the deer at Chatsworth - excellent facilities to do your L2 in stunning scenery

 

[sikamalc]

The process is simple gentlemen, with out the arguments.

A Level 2 candidate is given a list of AW's to choose from. The candidate contacts there nearest AW. If the candidate has his own land with deer on its up to them if they want to undertake the stalk on their land. If not they can ask the AW if they can stalk on their land to try and achieve an ICR. There is NOTHING in the rule book that says you must have your own land with deer before contacting any AW.
Most if not all those that contact me for their Level 2 have been out with me on my areas. It makes NO difference at all, as the AW should explain the boundaries and what they can shoot and explain footpaths etc before embarking on the stalk. If a candidate had access to new ground they would be in the same boat anyway, so I see little relevance in the argument that they must use their ground. That's simply NOT true.

Also Level 2 stalks taken on fenced areas or walled areas is allowed, still, although I personally do not agree with it. These areas are well known by DMQ I believe and are passed as suitable areas big enough for the deer to escape being stalked and shot! However they are still confined, and areas must be of a suitable size, so a 40 acre paddock wont cut the mustard.

So whether you have your own ground or not makes NO difference at all, unless the AW does not want to carry out a level 2 on his ground and only wants candidates to stalk on their own patch, in which case if your a Level 2 candidate you will need to look at another AW for help.