E collar

[Leglas]

I have a 9 month old Puli (sheepdog breed) and she’s got great recall when there aren’t livestock around, but as soon as she sees a sheep, chicken, rabbit etc. then she won’t stop until it’s cornered.
I have sheep on our croft and there isn’t much land round here where you’re far from livestock.
This is probably a question for a farming forum, but has anyone got any suggestions on how to stop her chasing sheep? Horses too - hasn’t happened yet but from her reaction whilst on the lead, it would and that worries me a lot.
Shes a fantastic dog and I’d like to be able to train her to work sheep in a few months so I don’t want to shock her into being terrified of them with an E collar, but I’m also aware the current situation isn’t tenable.
We have been working with a dog trainer in Inverness for the past few months and I would like to find a specialist sheepdog trainer but haven’t yet and would welcome any suggestions.

 

[VSS]

You need to desensitise her by having her around livestock so much that eventually they become boring and commonplace to her.
9 months is young enough. Still a puppy, really. She'll learn as she matures.

 

[Drum123]

All working dogs will show an interest in stock as a puppy , but as vss has said , if they're subjected to been around stock all the time , it all becomes very normal, eventually.Have you tried him on a long line yet? A good 'No' and sharp jerk will drive the message home . Horses are more of an issue though, at least their riders will be if he starts baying at a horse .Can get quite dangerous and expensive fast.
I've had dogs , cockers , indeed I've one now that will run at sheep if they don't yield to him and move out of his way . He dosnt chase , just shows his dominance.
Just still young and dumb. Quite funny when he tries it with a grumpy ewe that's not putting up with his crap and she turns the tables and runs at him.

 

[VSS]

Something else you need to do is give her another really strong focus for her mind and energy, as a distraction from livestock.
In the long term, this might take the form of agility training or some other discipline, but for now a really exciting ball game will serve the same purpose.
Her favourite ball will quickly become so important to her that it will distract her away from other things. I would expect, very soon, that you would be able to play "fetch" with the ball in a field of sheep, where under normal circumstances (ie, without the ball) she'd chase them.
In my experience (with collies) the most difficult hurdle to overcome is horses with riders on. Dogs can get really worked up about that, even if they'd normally ignore horses in a field.

 

[Dogtra UK]

Your dog is quite young. But no younger than my Teckel who I have on a collar as a failsafe.
The thing with e-collars is to view them as a long line. If your dog was wearing a collar and long line and just ignoring you, sniffing down a rabbit hole then you would give a little tug on the line to reinforce your command.
On the other hand, if your dog was about to sink its teeth into a lamb, then I’m sure the tug would be far more insistent.
The key with e-collars is to use just enough and no more.

 

[rem284]

E collar is a reenforcement tool. The conditioning, foundation and training needs to be in place first.

 

[Foxyboy43]

On a technical point I thought ecollars were illegal except in NI or does that only apply to those which have the electric shock function rather than just the sound and tremble functions?
“In England, the use of electric shock collars on dogs and cats is illegal. While the UK government had previously announced a ban, legislation.gov.uk was enacted in 2023 to make it a crime to use or possess such collars. The ban also applies to anyone who causes an electronic collar to be attached to a cat or dog. In Wales, shock collars have been banned since 2010. While the Scottish Government has issued guidance against their use, a formal ban has not yet been enacted. Northern Ireland does not have any legal restrictions on the use of shock collars”.

 

[rem284]

On a technical point I thought ecollars were illegal except in NI or does that only apply to those which have the electric shock function rather than just the sound and tremble functions?
“In England, the use of electric shock collars on dogs and cats is illegal. While the UK government had previously announced a ban, legislation.gov.uk was enacted in 2023 to make it a crime to use or possess such collars. The ban also applies to anyone who causes an electronic collar to be attached to a cat or dog. In Wales, shock collars have been banned since 2010. While the Scottish Government has issued guidance against their use, a formal ban has not yet been enacted. Northern Ireland does not have any legal restrictions on the use of shock collars”.

As you say, Scottish Government issued guidance. E collars are a useful tool. However like any tool they can be used incorrectly. I use mine as I would a longline, but it can be several hundreds of yards long. More often or not a beep is enough to remind the dog who is in charge. Not all laws introduced help everyone in every situation

 

[Rake Aboot]

Superb tools , but for a pup with stick it’s all about exposure

 

[Dogtra UK]

On a technical point I thought ecollars were illegal except in NI or does that only apply to those which have the electric shock function rather than just the sound and tremble functions?
“In England, the use of electric shock collars on dogs and cats is illegal. While the UK government had previously announced a ban, legislation.gov.uk was enacted in 2023 to make it a crime to use or possess such collars. The ban also applies to anyone who causes an electronic collar to be attached to a cat or dog. In Wales, shock collars have been banned since 2010. While the Scottish Government has issued guidance against their use, a formal ban has not yet been enacted. Northern Ireland does not have any legal restrictions on the use of shock collars”.

E-Collars are only illegal in Wales, a country that has seen a massive increase in attacks on sheep along with a massive increase in reports of dogs being shot whilst worrying livestock.

 

[Foxyboy43]

E-Collars are only illegal in Wales, a country that has seen a massive increase in attacks on sheep along with a massive increase in reports of dogs being shot whilst worrying livestock.

Bit confusing if you look on t’internet - draft regulations to ban ecollars in England were debated by the HoL two years ago but have not made it to the HoC so still at draft stage. Presumably Parliament has other priorities, you know - like illegal immigrants, winter fuel allowance, huge borrowing, war looming…….

 

[Dogtra UK]

Bit confusing if you look on t’internet - draft regulations to ban ecollars in England were debated by the HoL two years ago but have not made it to the HoC so still at draft stage. Presumably Parliament has other priorities, you know - like illegal immigrants, winter fuel allowance, huge borrowing, war looming…….

They had a certain ammount of time vote in the HOC, that time limit expired. If they want to impose a ban they have to go through the lords again and restart the whole procedure. We suspect it was delayed accidently on purpose give the strength of pro e-collar support and letters that were sent to MP's.

 

[dogman56]

E-Collars are only illegal in Wales, a country that has seen a massive increase in attacks on sheep along with a massive increase in reports of dogs being shot whilst worrying livestock.

I don't think you can link the 2. the type of dogs that are going for sheep are domestic pets with stupid owners and the majority of them would never use e-collars. Most e-collars I would guess would have been used for working dogs and getting them trained quicker but the overuse instead of proper training gave them a bad name and hence the legislation. If in doubt use a lead! don't rely on a battery device.

 

[Jelen]

You need to desensitise her by having her around livestock so much that eventually they become boring and commonplace to her.
9 months is young enough. Still a puppy, really. She'll learn as she matures.

That definitely works

 

[Dogtra UK]

I don't think you can link the 2. the type of dogs that are going for sheep are domestic pets with stupid owners and the majority of them would never use e-collars. Most e-collars I would guess would have been used for working dogs and getting them trained quicker but the overuse instead of proper training gave them a bad name and hence the legislation. If in doubt use a lead! don't rely on a battery device.

I disagree. Most E-collars are sold for pet dogs to curtail prey chase behaviour.

 

[Hales Smut]

It's a modern way of training dogs. One of the best things available. As said, if the dog knows the recall comand, it's a way to reinforce the command.
All the old systems of training, is back to the middle ages for the dog. A great tool, if used for training, not for revenge.
Wouldn't be without it.

 

[dryan]

I have a collar for my setter. Was invaluable in training. The other suggested option was put him in a trailer with a wild ewe to teach him the hard way!

I give a beep (not shock) or two from it on the first couple of outings a season, never use it for the rest, but good to know it’s there if I need it. I’ve shot over him a few times with no collar, but there’s always a risk with setters that they’ll take a notion to head for the hills and more birds, especially when I need to head home.

The dog needs to know there’s a shock there, but once he does he should behave accordingly once the collar is on.

 

[Dunwaters]

I don't think you can link the 2. the type of dogs that are going for sheep are domestic pets with stupid owners and the majority of them would never use e-collars. Most e-collars I would guess would have been used for working dogs and getting them trained quicker but the overuse instead of proper training gave them a bad name and hence the legislation. If in doubt use a lead! don't rely on a battery device.

I’ve never trained a dog yet that wouldn’t chase sheep and hares.
An E collar is an invaluable tool, preventing a bad habit from becoming an incurable fault if used correctly.
Used incorrectly, it’s abusive, but so are most other forms of physical correction.
There’s a lot of folk out there with a very erroneous idea of their own ability to train a dog, unfortunately they’re the ones dictating the rules.
Training for agility and the show ring isn’t the same as training for fieldwork.

 

[Drum123]

I never had an e collar in 40 years of dog ownership. Never really needed one , in fact I always thought those that used them were lazy . In fairness I have witnessed men using them as vengeance tools which is bloody awful to watch.
I was given a ten month old cocker dog that had been bought as a therapy dog by a fat lass in leeds then handed back due to him needing exercise and she was too lazy to provide it. In short I took him in the first week in may , every field was full of lambs , hed never seen grass never mind lambs , I knew he would go on a lamb , I knew I'd have one chance with him , I got an ecollar and three years late he's one of the best dogs I've had. Without that collar he'd have been in a hole by now.
They have there uses . I'm convinced of that.

 

[Dunwaters]

You need to desensitise her by having her around livestock so much that eventually they become boring and commonplace to her.
9 months is young enough. Still a puppy, really. She'll learn as she matures.

There’s definitely an opening in the market there. You provide the livestock and people with badly behaved dogs will beat a path to your door. You will definitely lose the odd lamb or chicken, so better price that into your business model.
The problem with dogs is that chasing prey and pulling it down is what the are evolved to do, they love it. Finding someone who is willing to let you get that out of the dogs system with their livestock is bloody difficult.