Ethics ….

Go to Asia, then you will see poor driving standards.

I work away from home for 6 months of the year and over the last twenty years have worked on every continent on Earth (excepting Antarctica unfortunately). Because of the "varying" standards of driving worldwide I have done several "defensive / advanced" driving courses, the benefits of which I am increasingly reliant upon when driving in the UK.

We have prescribed standards in the UK, along with a highway code, and my observations lead me to believe that an increasing number of drivers consistently fail to meet them. A huge number of road users that have not the first clue how to drive on roundabouts, have zero situational awareness, are impatient, distracted, angry, cannot / will not read road signs, stop / park wherever they see fit, refuse to drive to road conditions. It is embarassing.

Mandatory revalidation will never be introduced because, if it were, it would lead to the necessary revocation of a huge number of driving licenses and subsequent requirement to retest.
 
hat have not the first clue how to drive on roundabouts, have zero situational awareness,
They are too busy looking at their phones or looking at themselves in the mirror... too many distractions for some people in general life.
You must have seen many dangerous situations having travelled so widely.
 
I probably cling overly to the past and remember the words of my predecessor as a Branch Chairman BDS when he said, in the mid 1980s, that our generation had probably enjoyed the easiest ride as stalkers. There were expanding ranges of most of the British species and a benign legislative regime. This was at the time when the WSCC became the NSCC and DMQ was not thought of or invented. I became involved later in stalker training but only because I had been well initiated into the sport, mentored in my learning by some genuinely knowledgeable people, and encouraged to maintain a strict ethical code with respect for the quarry.

As the training regime enlarged, and bear in mind that it was always based on the voluntary principle - the analogy we used was that of the Yacht Master's Certificate, without which insurance is more difficult/expensive - the NSCC later became the DSC and later again DSC 1. During all these years the fundamentals of the shooting test did not vary; it was always about as quick a death as possible and the three pillars of Safety, Humanity and Legality in that priority order was maintained. Before formal Training became competitive between the organisations as to cost it was relatively leisured and time could be found for discussions on ethics, on humanity (reduction of consciousness in the animals) and on the courses I ran we also visited the county veterinary centre for lectures on diseases (recognise the variation in the normal before all else), carcass examination and how to report disease when found. We also found time to practice for the non FAC holders (usually with a .22 away to the side) on the practice range day which was also included in the course. I believe we put a moral stamp on the courses as well as delivering quality.

Ronin's original question was about the ethics of qualifying inexperienced firearms users with "assistance" on the range test. We did not assist people during the test UNLESS there was firearms problem in which case safety was paramount. I believed then that was as it should be and that it is the commercial drive to get people passing the test which has degraded both the quality of instruction and depth of knowledge imparted. The original course aim was to impart as much knowledge as time allowed which included also more than enough to pass the 4 modules, shooting, safety, identification and the multiple choice questionnaire. I believe it is also fair to say that the attitude of candidates has changed over time and the "qualify and go" mentality is now more prevalent than was then the case. The ease of finding a stalking mentor was also a factor. Everybody has to start somewhere and I still believe DSC1 to be the best starting point BUT the test rules must be rigorously applied and I made many visits as an Internal Verifier to other people's courses to ensure that was the case. I encouraged novices to stalk behind as many professionals as they could afford and to learn the best from each; or find a good mentor.

On the second question of practice and longer range shooting I do believe practice to be vital. I calculated once that I fired more than 4 bullets at paper for every deer killed. That practice at longer ranges is vital as on one occasion when a friend shot a hind [within an inch of perfection for a heart lung shot but the bullet failed to expand properly (in the early days of Nosler Ballistic tips)] and in a howling gale I had to shoot the animal at about 450 yards steeply downhill but fortunately head-to-wind. I aimed just upwind of its ears on the grounds that the wind would carry the round down a long diagonal of the neck and chest to the brisket and killed it with a perfect low neck shot. It was, I freely admit, "by guess and by God" but I would claim it to have been an educated guess because I had practised out to 300 metres, practised my range estimation, and knew my ballistic tables fairly well as a home loader. So yes, practice is good and practice in adverse (windy) conditions also. Equally I thought I knew my limitations but failed miserably to shoot accurately when invited to a very famous estate on Deeside and kill the calf alongside the hind I had just shot. We are not perfect and we can all fail. So yes do try the longer range stuff, but temper it with knowledge of your own capabilities.
 
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I probably cling overly to the past and remember the words of my predecessor as a Branch Chairman BDS when he said, in the mid 1980s, that our generation had probably enjoyed the easiest ride as stalkers. There were expanding ranges of most of the British species and a benign legislative regime. This was at the time when the WSCC became the NSCC and DMQ was not thought of or invented. I became involved later in stalker training but only because I had been well initiated into the sport, mentored in my learning by some genuinely knowledgeable people, and encouraged to maintain a strict ethical code with respect for the quarry.

As the training regime enlarged, and bear in mind that it was always based on the voluntary principle - the analogy we used was that of the Yacht Master's Certificate, without which insurance is more difficult/expensive - the NSCC later became the DSC and later again DSC 1. During all these years the fundamentals of the shooting test did not vary; it was always about as quick a death as possible and the three pillars of Safety, Humanity and Legality in that priority order was maintained. Before formal Training became competitive between the organisations as to cost it was relatively leisured and time could be found for discussions on ethics, on humanity (reduction of consciousness in the animals) and on the courses I ran we also visited the county veterinary centre for lectures on diseases (recognise the variation in the normal before all else), carcass examination and how to report disease when found. We also found time to practice for the non FAC holders (usually with a .22 away to the side) on the practice range day which was also included in the course. I believe we put a moral stamp on the courses as well as delivering quality.

Ronin's original question was about the ethics of qualifying inexperienced firearms users with "assistance" on the range test. We did not assist people during the test UNLESS there was firearms problem in which case safety was paramount. I believed then that was as it should be and that it is the commercial drive to get people passing the test which has degraded both the quality of instruction and depth of knowledge imparted. The original course aim was to impart as much knowledge as time allowed which included also more than enough to pass the 4 modules, shooting, safety, identification and the multiple choice questionnaire. I believe it is also fair to say that the attitude of candidates has changed over time and the "qualify and go" mentality is now more prevalent than was then the case. The ease of finding a stalking mentor was also a factor. Everybody has to start somewhere and I still believe DSC1 to be the best starting point BUT the test rules must be rigorously applied and I made many visits as an Internal Verifier to other people's courses to ensure that was the case. I encouraged novices to stalk behind as many professionals as they could afford and to learn the best from each; or find a good mentor.

On the second question of practice and longer range shooting I do believe practice to be vital. I calculated once that I fired more than 4 bullets at paper for every deer killed. That practice at longer ranges is vital as on one occasion when a friend shot a hind [within an inch of perfection for a heart lung shot but the bullet failed to expand properly (in the early days of Nosler Ballistic tips)] and in a howling gale I had to shoot the animal at about 450 yards steeply downhill but fortunately head-to-wind. I aimed just upwind of its ears on the grounds that the wind would carry the round down a long diagonal of the neck and chest to the brisket and killed it with a perfect low neck shot. It was, I freely admit, "by guess and by God" but I would claim it to have been an educated guess because I had practised out to 300 metres, practised my range estimation, and knew my ballistic tables fairly well as a home loader. So yes, practice is good and practice in adverse (windy) conditions also. Equally I thought I knew my limitations but failed miserably to shoot accurately when invited to a very famous estate on Deeside and kill the calf alongside the hind I had just shot. We are not perfect and we can all fail. So yes do try the longer range stuff, but temper it with knowledge of your own capabilities.
Everything as OldStalker states. Nicely put sir!

The new DMQ assessment being down to a mere 6 shots is a reduction in standards.
 
I was taught to shoot the hind first before Christmas/New Year as the calf would probably stand. Thereafter it was calf first and hind second until the season end. The purest humanity says you are right.
Someone told me this a long time ago 😉

In fairness it seems to be the case, I can’t recall ‘losing’ a calf early season when the hind is taken. Proof of the pudding and what not…
 
The scenario presented on the topic presents a few thoughts. Learning to shoot well and safely be first in mind. Ethics in the field equally of importance. I hunted once with a fellow who had proven at 100 yards his ability to hit where intended was dubious at best. Later showed that the previous day was a fluke. On the hunt however he wanted to shoot at 600 yards into property where we had no permission. I informed him should he shoulder his rifle I would take it from him by any means required. That hunt ended with the fellow in question killing a pronghorn at 70 yards in a safe and legal manner. Never hunted with him again.
 
Tthe range has targets way beyond the accepted stabdard (100 yard) guideline for killing deer and the people arranging are considered with a “stern” eye by their betters who suggest such activity should not take place and may be subject to negativity
I failed to "discuss" Ronin's third point. I remember well as a BDS Branch committee member being not hauled over the coals but, as Ronin describes "receiving the stern eye" when he and we wanted to practice on range days at longer ranges. It was frowned upon and discouraged strongly by the then Training Manager as being likely to encourage people to take longer shots than they were capable of doing confidently.

Again in past times we were lucky in having time, motive and opportunity (and money) to plink and play experimenting with rounds to find out the actual drop at differing ranges without using chronographs, ballistic calculator tables/programmes/apps to determine the drop at various ranges. Neither did we have laser range finders (except in the military) and the practice of guesstimating the distance to a spot ahead and pacing out the actuality is a handy (instructive) and genuinely useful skill. I remember the late Richard Prior stressing the importance of this skill at a course he ran in Tweeddale. It's not rocket science, does not need expensive kit, and is an important part of an accomplished stalkers skill [and to do it from 2 inches above the heather also]. Try it when walking the dog, wild fowling on the Marshes, stalking, and in town.
 
I owe an apology to my stalking companion on the day of the windward facing hind [post 109]; it was 350 yards not 450 yards - I plead finger error not memory. My conscience, when I re-read it said I must set the record straight.
 
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I did the DSC1 without any prior stalking experience, and found it really helpful, but it lacked detail in certain areas. I have learnt so much by going out on my own, but mostly from speaking to other shooters and by using forums like this
 
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