EU Withdrawal Agreement....

[Hornet 6]

. NOT doing it this way would mean both an economic and political disaster

Not sure I see your point, we voted out, and out it should have been, day after the vote was counted.
No deal, no exit payments, just out and trading with the rest of the world as a free country.
As for political disaster, no bad thing, particularly as thats what we have anyway, as for financial disaster, says who ?
Nobody knows do they, because what we voted for never came to pass, thanks to our lying, duplicitous, villainous leaders.

Neil.

 

[ChesterP]

Not sure I see your point, we voted out, and out it should have been, day after the vote was counted.
No deal, no exit payments, just out and trading with the rest of the world as a free country.
As for political disaster, no bad thing, particularly as thats what we have anyway, as for financial disaster, says who ?
Nobody knows do they, because what we voted for never came to pass, thanks to our lying, duplicitous, villainous leaders.

Neil.

Absolutely but there are those who cannot see past a negotiated deal which as we all know will only ever be in the EU's favour.

We ought as you say just have pulled the trigger on a no deal from the outset. The world would still turn on its axis and we'd all wake up to a country with more promise than the opposition would have us believe. We can survive and even flourish out of the EU but short termism by those who stand to lose fingers in various pies clouds the real opportunities.

Whatever people voted, neither side has got what was called for and not because it wasn't possible but because the EU could never allow it on our terms.

If ever evidence was needed for the validity of the call to leave, it has been in the disgraceful way that the EU has treated the UK since the Referendum and in the process of so called negotiation. They have made plain their utter lack of respect and their outright disdain for the UK except as their cash cow. That we had next to no say or at least had a say which was trampled on so many times over was one of many reasons a majority voted out in the first place.

 

[bluesako]

thats like getting divorced, and your ex wife still living with you. jeez! bs.

 

[Cottis]

What a mess. This is what happens when you give morons (us basically) a vote on something so important when we do not fully understand the legal ramifications of leaving. That be the legal and financial heartache attached to such a kneejerk vote result.

So many errors here. Giving us the vote was an error. Not furnishing everyone with full facts pre vote was a massive error.

It is like a merry go round that you were happy to pay a quid to go on but as you get more dizzy, nobody wants to pay an extra quid to get off. The result is everyone goes green and eventually loses the contents of their gut.

 

[Alantoo]

Nope! In a democracy the majority vote takes it.
So the vote in favour of OUT means OUT so, OUT is what the government must deliver.
No half measures.
And, no Maybe about it.

Who is living in a democracy where the majority vote takes it?

I am surprised given the vehemence and absolutism about democracy that the referendum engenders that more people are not appalled at our non-democratic electoral system for Werstminster. All our elected post war Governments have had more people voting against their manifestos than for. Even Thatcher and Blair with their huge majorities of seats had more votes cast against them than for.

Apply that same "democracy" to the referendum and out means in.

The referendum result is one of the few accurate indications of majority rule we have had. But my point is that given the close call on such a major issue, and given the known swing capacity of public whim/opinion any future direction that did not recognise the close call result would be incredibly short sighted. But then I believe in democracy and have always voted for Proportional Representation eschewing party politics, so what do I know.

Had it been a landslide referendum result I doubt that Boris would have stood back to let May take on the Poisoned Chalice. But maybe that was just the same brave self serving decision to jump ship he and David Davies took when they realised they couldn't deliver on their bluster. Let's get out and blame May.

Alan

 

[ChesterP]

For all those still thinking that May's done a great job, have a read of this by one chap who's been the voice of moderate reason within the "Leave Camp" since the start:

Daniel Hannan: The proposed Brexit terms represent a deal worse than either staying or leaving. | Conservative Home

 

[Roro]

Looking at pmq's on sky, this agreement is as dead as mutton, no one wants it.

 

[reloader54]

"fans switched on full,,, excrement ready"

Military could be used in the event of a 'no-deal' Brexit, says minister

 

[JTO]

A lot is said about us not knowing what we were voting for in the 2016 referendum. You have to say that about the vote to join the 'Common Market' in the 70s. I voted in both, and considered I was conned back then, like a lot of young people were in 2016. In 2016 I voted against what I didn't want, to be part of The European Union of Socialist Republics. It took the USSR 70 years to implode, and now the European bureaucrats want to try it all over again.
In First-Past-the-Post, I vote to stop what I don't want, under PR, I vote for what I want.

 

[nun_hunter]

I refer back to my previous post that if anyone (leave or remain) ever thought a leave vote would actually mean a complete leaving of the EU, free trade, taking control of our borders, not forking out £350 million then they were being ever so hopeful. I think everyone knew a remain vote would be a continuation of the status quo but the leave vote was built on hopes and dreams of what may be achieved if normal folk made the decisions based on their sense of what they wanted rather than what was ever going to be feasible and carried out by politicians who always have their own agenda.

I voted remain not because I particularly wanted to remain part of the EU but I knew a leave decision would be royally screwed up and leave us worse off because a true break from the EU was never going to happen.

 

[Pedro]

It's a complete dog's dinner. Frankly, I really do wonder how a no deal Brexit could be worse. It appears to me that the UK has, in effect capitulated on all fronts to the EU. Although I do have a teensy bit of pity for May, having become PM at a time where there was a no-win situation, I seriously don't think she can last much longer. I may be surprised and the deal will get voted in by Parliament and all will be well, but I also believe I shall win the lottery. And I don't buy any tickets!

 

[bowji john]

How ironic that 4 days after the 100 year commemoration of a war where lions were led by donkeys we once again see a disaster by a similarly long eared braying leadership that is not fit for purpose

 

[Freeforester]

Look on the bright side Gents, at least we won't have to wait 70 years for the EUSSR to implode, the Germans ain't going to bail out the Italians (they couldn't afford it, whether they were ever persuaded to do so or not) though that is the gambit of the latter going forward; it'll be lucky indeed if there is any EU for us to be supplicant to by this time next year, and nor is there much prospect of the 27 ratifying the agreement, much less Westminster. Events, dear boys, events!

 

[Roro]

The 27 would do as they are told by berlin. But the rest about the eu imploding i agree with. The eec was fine, we could all trade together and get on reasonably well. But of course billionare globalists wanted more, and tried to turn it into a federalist state. Wait until austria, italy, hungary, poland etc get tired of the dictats.

 

[JockStalk]

27 states, but UK economy larger than 19 of them combined.

And yet they want to treat the UK like a ginger-haired-stepchild for having the temerity to vote to leave the 'Hotel California' like corridors of the EU.

I'm hardening my position on brexit with every condescending word that drips out of that idiot Tusk's mouth. I don't recall his name on my ballot slip?

I also don't get all this rubbish about those who voted leave wanting to revert to 1950's Britain and the empire days? For me it was nothing at all about the past and 100% about the future. A future which was becoming more and more Orwellian by the day under an increasingly federal European project.

When in the US I regularly have to correct colleagues who refer to me as a European. I've never considered myself European. When they then refer to me as English I then have to correct them again. As I have a Scottish accent I then get 'scotch'. And its about that point I have to tell them I'm british. I'll always consider myself british first and foremost.

Its about time the people of this country, of all stripes and creeds, took a bit more damn pride in Britain, its capabilities and potential.

 

[User00025]

I seem to remember an Island that came out of a war with huge debts, then started an NHS for the general population. Through the 50's and 60's we managed very well once rationing ended, right through until the 70's.
Then the brown stuff hit the fan and we joined the common market. If anyone can convince me that things have got better and better since we did that then I will knaw the a..e off a skunk. Discipline, education, respect and neighbourly help has disappeared almost completely in that period. Our Politicians with one or two exceptions are there so that they don't have to work and if they were anywhere in industry would be dismissed first day.
We have on here the usual liberally minded set, (some of whom are strong capitalists) going this way and that on remain.
As far as I am concerned it was Leave that was voted for and Dave (The best deal I can get) before he legged it, should have written to the EU saying : You have two months to tell us what you are giving us, after that we are off, end of story. Oh, Oh, Oh, the ceiling hasn't just fallen on me and the Hounds have just jogged past my cottage so it can't be the end of Life as we know it.
Last thoughts "Hard Border", you in Eire listen up, if you want a Border so be it, if you want to start the troubles again because of that, just try it, we have heard all that crap before and if it hadn't been for liberal and weak politicians we could have ended it in a month. I am even beginning to look kindly on Vlad Putin's ways of dealing with some things.
Just pull the plug now.

 

[Woodsmoke]

Its about time the people of this country, of all stripes and creeds, took a bit more damn pride in Britain, its capabilities and potential.

I think that ship's sailed long since, sadly. I've said for the last few decades that Britain has been losing it's sense of identity more and more. There's no real definition of what it is to be 'British' any longer, is there? We have 'British' youngsters of mixed race talking to each other in some idiotic patois in an attempt to imitate what they perceive as glamorous from whatever crap they absorb from TV and the media: we have large swathes of many UK cities that, far from being 'multi-cultural', are far more reminiscent of 'home from home' for many of the immigrants we've been trying to 'assimilate' over the decades (many of whom STILL don't actually speak English): we've reduced ourselves to a comedic parody of politically-correct buffoons bending over backwards to try to avoid offending ANYBODY: We've lost many iconic cultural emblems through trying to avoid being labelled racist (the golliwog, for example. A perfectly innocuous and much-loved child's toy, taken by the PC Brigade as a symbol of Imperial racism and henceforth banned outright): we have children as young as 8 being diagnosed and treated for 'depression', and PTSD, while military veterans sleep homeless on the streets: we jump through hoops for the LGBT lot that can't make up their minds what or who they actually want to shag: We have 'British Citizens' buggering off to join their mates in bloody jihad against their own countrymen, and then being let back into the country: our national industries are either gone, or owned by foreign entities: and a hundred other things that boil my p iss . . . . .

And we can't even agree about leaving a bullying and narcissistic regime that even dictates the shape of our f ucking bananas . . . . . ???

Thank god I'll be long gone by the time all this madness finally comes home to roost and we end up in civil war. Or worse

 

[Woodsmoke]

I am even beginning to look kindly on Vlad Putin's ways of dealing with some things.
Just pull the plug now.

^This

 

[Freeforester]

As it stands at the moment, the direction of travel seems to be that irrespective of the EU's wished outcome, we are likely to be joining the majority of countries outwith the club and trading under WTO rules. Several of the major and emerging players in the globe have no formal trade agreement in place as far as trade with the EU is concerned, nonetheless they do trade with the EU. The joy of being in our position is that the rest of the world, including the various European countries, are keen to trade with us, and will be lining up to sell to U.K. Plc; Europe knows it cannot compete with the finance sector in London as the preeminent financial powerhouse, and don't even pretend any more.

We get a new PM, keep our money, sell our goods and fish at more attractive rates (now that the £ has dipped a bit more), we trade as preferred status member under WTO rules, and we can get back to the serious business of stalking deer - what's not to like?

 

[JTO]

the Germans ain't going to bail out the Italians (they couldn't afford it, whether they were ever persuaded to do so or not)

But if we stay in, we will be bled dry while they try.