FAC Caveats
- Thread starter Fdt
- Start date
CarlW
Well-Known Member
DSC1 used to do a safe backstop test. Do they not do that any more? Was many years ago that I did it.
There was in mine. All of the above. Not just in the theory sections and not multiple choice answers
I can assure you that the current DSC1 assessment contains a practical exercise which includes safe rifle handling and an appreciation of which shots are safe to attempt and which are not (my experience of 2016). I recall something very similar for NSCC at Grisedale in 1992 with the late John Cubby breathing down my neck although the details are lost among the little grey cells.
Orion
Well-Known Member
When we were providing NSCC courses we placed the cutouts of various deer species either side of a woodland ride, at varying distances and in safe/unsafe positions, to create a ‘simulated stalk’ with the candidate carrying the rifle and binos. With a few obstacles thrown in it covers quite a bit of the safety with firearms while still making it a more interesting experience for the nimrods.
Some very interesting comments, thank you.
I had already prepared a "shooting CV" dating from my first experiences with service weapons (I didn't use the W word, never fear) through to my previous stalking and target experience. I hadn't thought to include the reason I gave up shooting (kids=money+time) so I've put that in too.
As to DSC1, there is a safe handling element in the course which everyone has to pass, as others have said. This is a standard element of the course now, and I'd agree, it's not difficult but how hard can you make "don't shoot without a backstop, where there are other beasts behind the intended one and know where the footpaths run around you and other elements". I am being slightly trite and yes it's more complex than on a range but how can you examine it other than "would you take that shot"?
I've also decided to take the advice to ask him the questions which are, to my knowledge undefined. I'll send him those in advance to eliminate ambushing. A valid point. Some of the questions I will raise are:
DSC1:
The issue I take from this is one of consistency. The flexibility in interpretation is leading to a race to be the most stringent with the range between constabularies seemingly widening.
I had already prepared a "shooting CV" dating from my first experiences with service weapons (I didn't use the W word, never fear) through to my previous stalking and target experience. I hadn't thought to include the reason I gave up shooting (kids=money+time) so I've put that in too.
As to DSC1, there is a safe handling element in the course which everyone has to pass, as others have said. This is a standard element of the course now, and I'd agree, it's not difficult but how hard can you make "don't shoot without a backstop, where there are other beasts behind the intended one and know where the footpaths run around you and other elements". I am being slightly trite and yes it's more complex than on a range but how can you examine it other than "would you take that shot"?
I've also decided to take the advice to ask him the questions which are, to my knowledge undefined. I'll send him those in advance to eliminate ambushing. A valid point. Some of the questions I will raise are:
DSC1:
- Can you confirm what you feel is lacking from the course to allow me to align it with my experience?
- Do you have tangible alternative training packages which could be added to DSC1 to allow it to comply with your requirements?
- Have DMQ been informed of the inadequacies to allow them to rectify the same?
- Can you confirm what is meant by mentor?
- What qualifies someone to be a mentor?
- Where this is found in the legislation or the home office guidance?
- The word mentor implies, to me, an element of development. If that’s the case how long are these for and against what metrics would I be judged?
The issue I take from this is one of consistency. The flexibility in interpretation is leading to a race to be the most stringent with the range between constabularies seemingly widening.
DSC 1 still involves a field safety test - It is a basic test - like the shooting test
As with any course it has a value
Of course it doesn't replace experience, but it is a part of a journey
A quick way to acquire some knowledge and to demonstrate a little understanding of stalking issues
Join a club, serve in the military, go stalking with a mentor, read books, practice with your rifle
All ways to acquire knowledge
I wouldn't knock any of them
As with any course it has a value
Of course it doesn't replace experience, but it is a part of a journey
A quick way to acquire some knowledge and to demonstrate a little understanding of stalking issues
Join a club, serve in the military, go stalking with a mentor, read books, practice with your rifle
All ways to acquire knowledge
I wouldn't knock any of them
gonzo
Well-Known Member
Yep, mine was just the same, 12months ago. With the simulated stalk around a field, with cutouts in various places. And having to explain if and why you would/not shoot.
The police were not interested in the DSC1, or my accompanied stalk bookings, at all. They only wanted a written permission to shoot over land.
And refused to even consider an open ticket till the next renewal. Unless I could provide overwhelming evidence.
(Well, they mentioned 5years, but my field use was only added mid term. So hopefully I will get it open next year.)
The police were not interested in the DSC1, or my accompanied stalk bookings, at all. They only wanted a written permission to shoot over land.
And refused to even consider an open ticket till the next renewal. Unless I could provide overwhelming evidence.
(Well, they mentioned 5years, but my field use was only added mid term. So hopefully I will get it open next year.)
Which constabulary are you in?
jimbo1984
Well-Known Member
Indeed a quick way .......
Orion
Well-Known Member
jimbo1984
Well-Known Member
There’s a lot of them about ........And possibly the only way to becoming an instant ‘deer manager’.
I had the same experience when a friend moved to Scotland. As I've stated before on SD, I thought it very sensible.
Oracle
Well-Known Member
At 13.26 the Guidance states that it is "Desirable that new applicants should have some experience of the safe use of firearms before using such rifles" and at 13.32 "applicants should generally have some experience of firearms" it goes onto say that "experience is neither cartridge nor ammunition type exclusive". It offers no guidance on how that experience is acquired or to the level required, so I am sure the OP can evidence his abilities in the safe handling and use of firearms from his previous experience. However the attached may be of value when speaking with his FEO
Oracle, that's hugely useful. I hadn't found anything specific on mentoring and that sums it up nicely.
Hopefully the FEO will be a decent chap on the day.
CarlW
Well-Known Member
Most of them are, but even if he's not, make sure you are. As @Heym SR20 said, you need to make the FEO's job as easy as possible. If you give him evidence, he feels safe agreeing to things; if you don't, he doesn't.
And finally, remember not to be a dick about it when quoting from HOG...
Good luck!
Carl
Carl W you lovely man. Whilst I agree he shouldnt be a dick I am fast losing patience with the purveyors of a service which is paid for giving advice which does not conform with the best practice Guidance they have been given. No comment here about who should be explaining these concerns a little more forcefully.
No question, anger is unwise but politely displaying a little concern that the expert advice available has been ignored is not unreasonable. I would love to see my file. Are the firearms files governed by FOI regs?
No question, anger is unwise but politely displaying a little concern that the expert advice available has been ignored is not unreasonable. I would love to see my file. Are the firearms files governed by FOI regs?
Similar threads
