Final answer on BASC insurance

[big ears]

As you know there have been quite a few threads over the last year talking about the BASC insurance with respect to deer stalking.

There was a degree of ambiguity in relationship to how much anyone could earn from the sale of venison and still be covered. Terms like “reasonable amount” were not as reassuring as other societies who were willing to commit to an exact amount. SACS for instance we’re willing to commit to £5000pa, but did stress that it would be up to the individual to prove this.

Yesterday I received an email from Marsh which does clarify the issue and I am very grateful to them for doing this.

It states;

Following our telephone conversation, please see below the information we discussed and which was provided by my colleague.

Depends on the nature of the income.

If it’s from the sale of the excess meat back into the food chain there is no limit so long as the activity of actually culling/stalking the deer is itself recreational.

If it’s payment for the actual act of culling the deer then it needs to be nominal – there is no figure set but it cannot be his primary income and shouldn’t really be much more than expenses.

I trust you find this to be in order.

So this means that if you are purely recreational then the BASC policy will cover you for all of the venison sales and animals put into game dealers. However if you take any earrings from your stalking be it clients or being paid for culling animals then you will not be covered and have to seek other public liability insurance. This seems fair enough and I think may have been some of the cause of previous disquiet.

I am grateful for this clarification from BASC/Marsh and hope this will help members on here make a fully informed decision on their insurance.

It seems if you are culling a lot if deer recreationally and could exceed the £5000pa limit then this insurance would benefit you. If you are under this then you need perhaps to look into wether the increase premium of BASC (£88) is worth it in your eyes or consider others who are offering very similar insurance at half this price (SACS @ £42).

Obviously if you go with others you will loose the chance of winning the permission lottery which may swing your decision. Who knows

BE

 

[VSS]

So what if you're culling deer purely for the purpose of selling venison? Not taking clients, or being paid for doing the culling itself? That's not clear from the above.

 

[baguio]

@big ears "So this means that if you are purely recreational then the BASC policy will cover you for all of the venison sales and animals put into game dealers. However if you take any earnings from your stalking be it clients or being paid for culling animals then you will not be covered and have to seek other public liability insurance.

That's not quite how I read it. Being paid for culling animals would appear to depend on how much you're being paid and the terms of your contract. £/animal would not be covered. However, £50 per visit to cover your expenses would be covered. Hence the statement "If it’s payment for the actual act of culling the deer then it needs to be nominal – there is no figure set but it cannot be his primary income and shouldn’t really be much more than expenses.

 

[baguio]

So what if you're culling deer purely for the purpose of selling venison? Not taking clients, or being paid for doing the culling itself? That's not clear from the above.

If it’s from the sale of the excess meat back into the food chain

I would suggest that nearly everyone on here who culls deer will eat venison sometimes. Therefore they're not selling every scrap but simply the excess, surely?

 

[VSS]

If it’s from the sale of the excess meat back into the food chain

I would suggest that nearly everyone on here who culls deer will eat venison sometimes. Therefore they're not selling every scrap but simply the excess, surely?

It's the "recreational stalking" bit that needs to be defined.
I sell venison as part of my business, and in order to do so I need to shoot deer. But I am not paid in any way for the actual shooting of the deer. So is my stalking recreational or commercial?

 

[chriswjx]

So what if you're culling deer purely for the purpose of selling venison? Not taking clients, or being paid for doing the culling itself? That's not clear from the above.

If you're culling deer purely for the purposes of selling venison then I would have thought that you fail the statement "so long as the activity of actually culling/stalking the deer is itself recreational" and are therefore not covered. Same with selling venison that was gathered by a client you have taken stalking, because the actual stalk is not recreational for you (as the guide, note client to mean someone who has paid, not just taking your mate out for a go).

 

[chriswjx]

It's the "recreational stalking" bit that needs to be defined.
I sell venison as part of my business, and in order to do so I need to shoot deer. But I am not paid in any way for the actual shooting of the deer. So is my stalking recreational or commercial?

Oops, posted my previous reply at the same time as this. I would argue commercial, as you are selling it on as a business/commercial venture.

Now is there a legal grey hole that you could slip under if you as a private individual sold it to the company? Probably not, as I presume you are a director of the business, but if not then one work around?

 

[baguio]

It's the "recreational stalking" bit that needs to be defined.
I sell venison as part of my business, and in order to do so I need to shoot deer. But I am not paid in any way for the actual shooting of the deer. So is my stalking recreational or commercial?

I agree that you're a bit of an odd one...in this respect too! Most of us have full time 'day' jobs so that fit's in nicely. With venison being a not insignificant part of your significant income I think that you're probably on rocky ground.

 

[big ears]

So what if you're culling deer purely for the purpose of selling venison? Not taking clients, or being paid for doing the culling itself? That's not clear from the above.

If it is recreational and you are not being paid over your reasonable expenses (I take that to be petrol and bullets) you are covered as I read it.

 

[big ears]

It's the "recreational stalking" bit that needs to be defined.
I sell venison as part of my business, and in order to do so I need to shoot deer. But I am not paid in any way for the actual shooting of the deer. So is my stalking recreational or commercial?

Then it’s not recreational it’s part of your business and you need to sort other public liability insurance

 

[big ears]

@big ears "So this means that if you are purely recreational then the BASC policy will cover you for all of the venison sales and animals put into game dealers. However if you take any earnings from your stalking be it clients or being paid for culling animals then you will not be covered and have to seek other public liability insurance.

That's not quite how I read it. Being paid for culling animals would appear to depend on how much you're being paid and the terms of your contract. £/animal would not be covered. However, £50 per visit to cover your expenses would be covered. Hence the statement "If it’s payment for the actual act of culling the deer then it needs to be nominal – there is no figure set but it cannot be his primary income and shouldn’t really be much more than expenses.

I kind of paraphrased it but you are right and we are saying the same thing.

If you are culling the deer as part of an agreement and are paid for it then it will be up to you to prove that all you received was expenses. Also what is not clear but you can infer is that venison sales from an agreement that you are paid for above expenses are not covered and you will need to take out your own public liability.

I read this simply. If you are a recreational stalker then you are covered 100%. If however you use stalking as part of your business or are contracted to cull deer you are on dodgy ground and should take out separate insurance.

I actually don’t disagree with that stance from BASC.

BE