Firearms certs delays

[WW.]

I was just wondering, with the delays with so many firearms applications, whether there are any solicitors on here (I know, probably better to ask BASC legal team) who would know if we count as consumers for this and thus have consumer rights?

If forces argue they're fulfilling a public service then surely they undermine the case for charging and fee increases as these should be funded from taxation, conversely if they're providing a private service then surely we're consumers?

Essentially, we are paying for a service which is not being delivered in a timely manner and there's variable service across the country. Is there anything in consumer rights law which could be used to make constabularies sit up and resource their departments properly?

What about getting at least a partial fee refund because of the lack of timely service? This seems appropriate given the recent increase in fees.

I know this is probably all undone by something simple which I'm in ignorance of but if anyone could tell me what that is I'd be grateful.

 

[nf-fuse]

I was just wondering, with the delays with so many firearms applications, whether there are any solicitors on here (I know, probably better to ask BASC legal team) who would know if we count as consumers for this and thus have consumer rights?

If forces argue they're fulfilling a public service then surely they undermine the case for charging and fee increases as these should be funded from taxation, conversely if they're providing a private service then surely we're consumers?

Essentially, we are paying for a service which is not being delivered in a timely manner and there's variable service across the country. Is there anything in consumer rights law which could be used to make constabularies sit up and resource their departments properly?

What about getting at least a partial fee refund because of the lack of timely service? This seems appropriate given the recent increase in fees.

I know this is probably all undone by something simple which I'm in ignorance of but if anyone could tell me what that is I'd be grateful.

Of course not it's the public sector.

 

[8x57]

WW said
"What about getting at least a partial fee refund because of the lack of timely service? This seems appropriate given the recent increase in fees."

Totally agree and its something I've suggested myself previously. Penalise them for their tardiness. I think it's a suggestion that all the shooting organisations should be pressing for.

 

[Donkey Basher]

It’s not a private service so we’re not consumers & as such don’t have those rights.

It’s a public service for which there is a set fee, such as there is for example for a driving licence, which they apply for the discharge of that service when requested.

The simple fact is that most licensing authorities do not get the budgets needed, even with the recent fee increase, to enable them to be properly resourced with sufficient staff of the required ability & training to enable them to deliver the service effectively.

Whether that lack of budget/resources/ability/training is deliberate or unintentional is another question altogether… (puts on tin hat & awaits incoming ).

 

[Chris Richardson]

It’s not a private service so we’re not consumers & as such don’t have those rights.

It’s a public service for which there is a set fee, such as there is for example for a driving licence, which they apply for the discharge of that service when requested.

The simple fact is that most licensing authorities do not get the budgets needed, even with the recent fee increase, to enable them to be properly resourced with sufficient staff of the required ability & training to enable them to deliver the service effectively.

Whether that lack of budget/resources/ability/training is deliberate or unintentional is another question altogether… (puts on tin hat & awaits incoming ).

You are of course correct but I firmly believe it’s entirely intentional

 

[weblyish]

You are of course correct but I firmly believe it’s entirely intentional

Intentional would imply a senior level of planning which I see no evidence of anywhere within the police or home office

Simply being Unaccountable is enough to explain what we see

 

[nf-fuse]

It’s not a private service so we’re not consumers & as such don’t have those rights.

It’s a public service for which there is a set fee, such as there is for example for a driving licence, which they apply for the discharge of that service when requested.

The simple fact is that most licensing authorities do not get the budgets needed, even with the recent fee increase, to enable them to be properly resourced with sufficient staff of the required ability & training to enable them to deliver the service effectively.

Whether that lack of budget/resources/ability/training is deliberate or unintentional is another question altogether… (puts on tin hat & awaits incoming ).

There's no incentive to provide a good service.

 

[long_range_rob]

FAC’s are a privilege not a right. Plus if you sue and loose you pay their legal costs too.

 

[Norfolk Deer Search]

I was just wondering, with the delays with so many firearms applications, whether there are any solicitors on here (I know, probably better to ask BASC legal team) who would know if we count as consumers for this and thus have consumer rights?

If forces argue they're fulfilling a public service then surely they undermine the case for charging and fee increases as these should be funded from taxation, conversely if they're providing a private service then surely we're consumers?

Essentially, we are paying for a service which is not being delivered in a timely manner and there's variable service across the country. Is there anything in consumer rights law which could be used to make constabularies sit up and resource their departments properly?

What about getting at least a partial fee refund because of the lack of timely service? This seems appropriate given the recent increase in fees.

I know this is probably all undone by something simple which I'm in ignorance of but if anyone could tell me what that is I'd be grateful.

Be patient, don’t get grumpy, you craze them there is only one way your heading and threat to the bottom of the list.

The good days are long gone, your now competing with everyone else, staff are probably over worked, probably under paid and are dealing with grumpy people winging and moaning.

To which for it was me at the end of the phone I would tell the applicant to **** off if they got RC with me, what you have to remember is they’re just doing their job the best they can with the resources they’ve got

 

[Mike1979]

Be patient, don’t get grumpy, you craze them there is only one way your heading and threat to the bottom of the list.

The good days are long gone, your now competing with everyone else, staff are probably over worked, probably under paid and are dealing with grumpy people winging and moaning.

To which for it was me at the end of the phone I would tell the applicant to **** off if they got RC with me, what you have to remember is they’re just doing their job the best they can with the resources they’ve got

Always best not to annoy those who can have a massive impact on your hobby.

I'll give praise where its due...Dyfed Powys Firearms team are great ... put a 1for1 in yesterday, e mail about 2 hours later asking for my "old" cert back so they can issue a new one.

 

[Norfolk Deer Search]

Always best not to annoy those who can have a massive impact on your hobby.

I'll give praise where its due...Dyfed Powys Firearms team are great ... put a 1for1 in yesterday, e mail about 2 hours later asking for my "old" cert back so they can issue a new one.

You chopping in that man bun gun?

You know it makes sense

 

[Mike1979]

You chopping in that man bun gun?

You know it makes sense

In your dreams mate. If I was going to get rid I would wait until I have come and seen you and made you suffer my company and the creed

I did see mention of you saying you were getting fallow running with the mighty 7 x 57....maybe you need a Gaymoor in your life to go with your man bag and special trousers (rear vented by any chance?)

Hole in one of the mods that shouldnt be there on the .243 so need a new one.

 

[Norfolk Deer Search]

In your dreams mate. If I was going to get rid I would wait until I have come and seen you and made you suffer my company and the creed

I did see mention of you saying you were getting fallow running with the mighty 7 x 57....maybe you need a Gaymoor in your life to go with your man bag and special trousers (rear vented by any chance?)

Hole in one of the mods that shouldnt be there on the .243 so need a new one.

Hell will freeze over first!

 

[Mike1979]

Hell will freeze over first!

 

[Greenmist]

Firstly, we need an organisation that is willing to be proactive and fight for shooters, currently we don't have that
Secondly, I do believe that if certificates aren't processed in a timely manner, the fee should be returned. But as we have no fight in us, look at the pathetic response to the current fac/sgc petition, it won't happen

 

[timbrayford]

It’s not a private service so we’re not consumers & as such don’t have those rights.

It’s a public service for which there is a set fee, such as there is for example for a driving licence, which they apply for the discharge of that service when requested.

The simple fact is that most licensing authorities do not get the budgets needed, even with the recent fee increase, to enable them to be properly resourced with sufficient staff of the required ability & training to enable them to deliver the service effectively.

Whether that lack of budget/resources/ability/training is deliberate or unintentional is another question altogether… (puts on tin hat & awaits incoming ).

With 40+ FLDs all duplicating the same work the current expensive and inefficient service is inevitable. Far from mucking around with s2 the admin side needs bringing into the 21st century.

 

[12gsnapcaps]

Plus if you sue and loose you pay their legal costs too.

Not always. I'm aware of many cases where the judge, on an appellant loss, to not award costs to the police

 

[12gsnapcaps]

Firstly, we need an organisation that is willing to be proactive and fight for shooters, currently we don't have that
Secondly, I do believe that if certificates aren't processed in a timely manner, the fee should be returned. But as we have no fight in us, look at the pathetic response to the current fac/sgc petition, it won't happen

The closest we have to this is Fieldsports Nation.

 

[palmer_mike]

FAC’s are a privilege not a right.

Disagree 100% with that statement.

Subject to meeting certain criteria FACs ARE a right

 

[timbrayford]

Disagree 100% with that statement.

Subject to meeting certain criteria FACs ARE a right

Absolutely agree, if the FLD refuses to grant or renew there is a statutory right of appeal and if successful the FLD must obey the court order. This privilege nonsense was dreamt up by a porn addict Home Office minister and rubber stamped by the antis at Marford Mill!