Let's increase firearms fees.

[Dalua]

Palmerston's (alledged) comment to Queen Victoria on Domestic Reform:
“Change? Change? Why do we need change? Things are quite bad enough already.”

The reasons behind these particular suggestions for change seem to be that the Police and FLDs are not doing their job properly.

What basis is there to suppose that they would do any better if any Law, Guidance or fees were changed?

One change only is needed: namely, that the Police/FLDs start to do the job for which they're paid in a timely and resonable fashion as required by the Law.

 

[Tamus]

Palmerston's (alledged) comment to Queen Victoria on Domestic Reform:
“Change? Change? Why do we need change? Things are quite bad enough already.”

The reasons behind these particular suggestions for change seem to be that the Police and FLDs are not doing their job properly.

What basis is there to suppose that they would do any better if any Law, Guidance or fees were changed?

One change only is needed: namely, that the Police/FLDs start to do the job for which they're paid in a timely and resonable fashion as required by the Law.

Hear, hear!

I'm not even sure I understand why we have to pay the Police anything for them to do what the law requires them to do.

I know I don't get paid anything when I obey the law and see that I'm insured to drive my car or that it's M.O.T.'d and I've made sure my road fund tax is paid... in advance... (let alone me getting paid for adhering to speed limits)

 

[Kalahari]

I don't think offering the police more money would do anything for us. They would just take the money and still act as unconcerned, doesn't matter what we do we are above the law (put in whatever term you choose). They have a legal responsibilty to act in a timely and proper way and follow the law and they don't. Paying them more is like turkeys voting for Xmas!!

David.

 

[8x57]

On the contrary David I think good service should be rewarded but at the same time poor service should be penalised. If I can give you an example, when I left school I worked in the transport department of a diving engineers. We often sent goods to far parts of the country via one of the national carriers. One of their drivers suggested we try the new 24Hr service whereby if the goods weren't delivered within 24 hours of collection from us then we wouldn't have to pay. He happened to mention that they were failing to cope with demmand. So we despatched everything with that company for the next six months and never paid a penny in transport costs. They soon improved their service.

 

[7upwestmids]

Disagree mate

I'm afraid i disagree as well mate,my firearms licensing office are outstanding and have variations etc sorted in a couple of days.We don't all have brand new range rovers,blazers and swarovskis and endless amounts of dosh.Shooting especially fullbore is getting more and more expensive,ammo prices are getting ridiculous and stalking guides are getting greedier.I believe if licensing goes that high,it will have no difference on admin at the office,it may be used to increase fees to a level where even more stalkers are priced out of their sport,which is what some people in government would like.

 

[8x57]

And £20 a year is going to break the bank? That's less than most of us pay for 500 rounds of .22 ammo.
If you read what has been debated already you will see that no one is suggesting full rcovery of costs for administration of the firearms licensing system in fact far from it. Even parliament has previously recognised that it is a control mechanism and as such should not be self financing.

Let's meet the police half way - yes provide some additional funding by way of an increase in fees but in return demmand an improvement in service and penalise those departments that don't provide the correct level of service.

 

[270TOMMY]

i totally disagree why should i pay more for for a allready great service i get from durham constabulary if some people are not happy with the service they recieve then they should complain about it in order to get something done not offer them more money what makes you think you will get a better service just cos it costs more and to think the police would be held to a financial penalty dont think that will ever happen.

 

[swarovski]

I can't see paying more money for better service would work fullstop

 

[bogtrotter]

There has already been a cry from some quarters to have the full cost of the services be paid by the applicant
at the present tome I believe it costs around £250 for each certificate processed.

IMO not a bad deal for what we get, especially those of us who are happy with
the service we receive from firearms department.


Apache suggests the price of visitors permits should be increased to be in line with the price we pay as UK citizens.

At present time a VP is £12 it may last up to just under a year it may not by law
last a full twelve months it may be 364 days but not a full year.
Not every force will do a permit for this length of time and insist on a application for each visit to the UK.

Some forces require the visitor to be making a number of visits to the UK in a year before issuing a permit for the year some require five separate visits in the year
The visitor also has to give the expected dates of his visits, not always easy twelve months in advance.

I have some clients who come as often as seven times in the year at seven separate visits they are already paying more than we are even for a yearly permit much more so if having to apply for a permit for each visit.

Though a VP is £12 a visitor requires a UK sponsor there is time involved in
filling in forms collecting them and posting them back International signed for costs just over £7 TO Europe not a big problem with one permit when multiple permits are involved the costs can be considerable, a lot of sponsors expect to be recompensed for their expenditure and rightly so if you take in postage costs of mailing to firearms department, visits to police if there are any queries postage back to the applicant and the £12 permit cost most sponsors charge a fee of £20-£25 already it can be seen that the applicant is spending considerably more than we are for a permit.

 

[Hornet 6]

Why should I pay the fee's you mention, for a level of service such as you propose when I get a better service for less money now ?

Neil.

 

[MONGOOSE]

People's opinion is obviously going to differ depending on the level of service you recieve, I could not be happier with my firearms department but if I had to wait 12 months for a variation and 9 months for a renewal and they were throwing out restrictive conditions left right and centre, something stupid like that then I would be willing to pay more but as I'm not in that position YET I don't see the need to, but I do feel sorry for those individuals who have to put up with a very poor level of service I think we need a proper service thats fair and efficient and sticks to the HO guidelines and not pick and choose what they want and when they like, and if they gave that level of service then I would not hesitate to pay more not for a second......

 

[MONGOOSE]

I remember posting this on here a while ago looking at some of the forces on there I can understand why some would be willing to pay more to get a better level of service can't you?

 

[CWMMAN3738]

very well intentions but what is the purpose of a certificate?
It's not for the benefit of the shooter !
It's to console those who think we need regulating so why should we pay more?
I would willingly pay more if the service i recived benifitted me >ie:- advice from inteligent FEO's, none of these silly condition's, a straight forward and fair appeals process for all things related, & all forces singing from the HO guidelines hyme sheet, th all requests dealt with within a specified time frame without fail or then free.

 

[Big Kev]

Cumbria is my local constabulary, I've never had to wait more than four weeks for the return of anything, in most cases a lot less. Maybe you should use some of your spare cash and buy a property here.

 

[Tamus]

At this moment in time in my issuing Force which is Strathclyde, they are carrying out a study to work out the time/costs of processing a FAC.

Without going into a lot of detail regarding the process, on the face of it, the cost at the moment does seem rather reasonable when you look at the fact it equates to around £10 a year.

Anyone who works in any of the occupations which require Disclosure Checks to be carried out have to pay and although I cannot recall the precise amount, our £50 semed good value considering the amount of checks and work involved.

I can only assume that an increase will be in the pipeline or certainly a proposal put forward for one.

As far as penalising issuing Forces for delays, that would be a non starter. Having had some first hand experience in these matters, I was very suprised at the high level of errors or ommisions on Application and Renewal forms submitted. These all require returning to the applicant or referee which delays issue. Some have been pretty outrageous ranging from failing to decalre convictions, no longer being welcome on the land stated and bogus permission letters. There was one whose referee was no less than the President of the United States, as you can imagine, he proved difficult to speak to.

I also understand that here in Strathclyde, we are fortunate not to have nonsense conditions attached such as mentoring and receive an "open" certificate from the start.

To me, that seems a more streamlined and simpler process which should be the standard for all Forces and not have shooters at the mercy of "Regional Fads" As we will all be paying the same amount and be governed by the same Legisaltion, the same process should be utilised by issuing Forces.

Bob, we're lucky to have the service we have. The job gets done pretty damned well here e.g. my last 1-4-1 got turned around in a fortnight. Obviously, your colleagues manage it within the fees we already pay. So we have to wonder... Why can't it be like that everywhere?

Clearly, I'd rather pay less than more though...

 

[Bandit Country]

Hear, hear!

I'm not even sure I understand why we have to pay the Police anything for them to do what the law requires them to do.

I know I don't get paid anything when I obey the law and see that I'm insured to drive my car or that it's M.O.T.'d and I've made sure my road fund tax is paid... in advance... (let alone me getting paid for adhering to speed limits)

+1. I already pay for a police 'service' through my council tax and general taxation. I really don't understand why I have to pay extra for a service the police are required to provide. Next thing you know they'll be charging crims for arresting them ...... hmmmmm? :idea:

 

[Taff]

+1 bandit, some people forget it's the duty of the police to issue the Certs on time , and police the system in a way that is efficient, it is there own faulty it does not work, if they spent less time tryin to prevent law abiding citizens carrying out a lawfull hobby and more time obeying the guide lines set down by the government the job would be completed in half the time, the police forget this is not a police state, but a country governed by a elected parliament and it is there job to obey that parliament not try to undermine it. The problem of issuing Certs on time will not be solved by more money, but by changing the guide lines into law, which would then remove the ambiguity with which police forces run the system to there own benefit, ask yourself when was a crime ever prevented that was carried out by a person waiting upto five months for there cert to be renewed. If you paid a million pounds for your cert the service would be no better as the police don,t want it to be? Rant over

 

[2130martin]

What is the reasoning behind a renewal anyway,why have an expiry date?
And why one for one variations,cant RFD's regulate that by allowing a purchase if there is an empty slot?
All of this could be done online by RFD's,something like the MOT system etc...........

 

[AndrewT059]

Why should I pay the fee's you mention, for a level of service such as you propose when I get a better service for less money now ?

Neil.

+1

 

[bewsher500]

They dont need more money, they need better organisation!! They rewrite the certificate rather than editing it, mistakes happen as a result

That said L&B are awesome (in case they are watching!) 2 week variation door to door.