First Aid Kits - Views please

[firsttimer]

I have 2 FaKs, one in my bum bag and 1 in my car. The former has been supplemented with a Tom O Toole and antihistamine tablets due to my bodies dislike of tick and cleg bites.

I have used my kit once when I managed whilst cutting rides to embed a pine needle in my finger which once extracted left a flow of blood similar to a shot deer trail.

Based on the responses seems that most stalkers have a basic kit to cope with minor injuries

 

[bigshug]

1. If you have a kit, why did you buy it? Where do you keep it? - Don't have an off the shelf; I have mine in the car; bought it first of all for a camping trip.
   
2. Have you used it and if so, was the content effective?
3. What do you like and dislike about what you have? I made mine up myself; waterproof box; included antiseptic spray and bite/sting relief which is not usually in first aid kits; also added some antihistamines and loperamide.
   
4. If you don’t have a FaK, what would prompt you to get one?
5. How much do you think about your needs and how much do you just rely on an off the shelf kit? Thought about what I needed and put mine together.
   
6. Would a basic kit in a simple bag – to fit your pocket, pack or existing pouch appeal. One with a few essential items, just enough components but of good quality? A soft waterproof bag would be really good to go in the jacket - but I am always suspicious of quality in ready-made anything, and would rather pay more buying brands I know and trust.
   
7. Anyone have an off the shelf kit where the plasters actually stick? Nope.
   

 

[chunk]

almost embarrassed to say that the first aid kit i have in my car, is totally home made and probably not of any use for me to use much on others. as it has creams and antiseptics in it.
contents:
2 boxes of plasters
3 or 4 bandages approx 12"x12"
1 large 2'x2' bandage
3 or 4 sterile pads in packs
bottle of TCP
spray tin of savlon
insulation tape
victorix swiss army knife

and until recently i had a pot of potassium permanganate (stops bleeding).

i have used 2 plasters in the 4 years i've had it. and i poured tcp on a cut i had on my thumb ohhh the pain
also i nearly forgot it has some antihistamine tablets in it. as i am the master of allergys ( bees, nuts and many more)

 

[derek.snr]

you can carry the besst ,most expensive kit in the world but its useless unless you know how to use it.

 

[Apache]

Unless you can prove me otherwise I don't believe there is a commercially available kit that is 'fit for purpose'. The first aid 'kits' that you buy seem to be aimed at minor cuts/blisters and scrapes, the sort of thing that you wouldn't come to much harm if left totally untreated. Where a first aid kit matters are situations of life and death, with some comfort items if space allows.

My take would be to decide what are the most serious injuries that you could sustain and what is most likely. Another aspect is that a lot of shooting is a solitary activity and what can be used for self care or a single item that can take on a number of separate uses. A serious laceration is probably the most severe life threataning injury you may sustain and a large pressure dressing is needed here. If you may be treating other people then your personal protection is vital and some disposable gloves and a resuscitation face mask could go a long way to protect you.

This is my take on a kit for personal use for various outdoor activities. I have a very much more substantial kit in the car with enough stuff to deal with more serious injuries such as an RTA.

The bag is about 15cm by 8cm and 6cm deep. I replaced the zips with paracord and large ends to make it quiet and easy to open if injured and self-treating. It folds out and I usually have a pair of nitrile gloves free in the middle. It fits in a bumbag or wax jacket pocket, but does have a belt loop that I personally don't use.

The listing is as follows:
2 pairs nitrile gloves
1 size 4 vacuum packed trauma dressing (with elasticated pressure bandage)
2 hypodermic needles (splinters)
2 sterile scalpel blades
Roll of 25mm elastoplast
small pack of mixed plasters (good quality)
Lip balm
2 20ml saline eye wash pods
resuscitation face shield
antiseptic wipes
2 blood stopper nasal plugs
2 small sachets of burn gel
clinical waste bag
2 ibuprofen and codeine tablets (reasonably strong painkiller/anti-inflammatory)
6 loperamide (generic Immodium)
4 chlorphenamine (anti-histamine)

My biggest dilemma is wanting to add ever more stuff to it! I have a draw full of spare first aid gear. In most of my coats I have a small kit with some gloves and a dressing pad and resuscitation shield. I carry a few plasters in my wallet. I have toyed with a haemostatic agent but realistically all bleeding will stop with sufficient pressure, we amputate cows claws and a pressure bandage is all that keeps them from bleeding to death. Also remember that if you deem a gun shot wound to be a significant risk you need 2 decent dressings (1 for entry 1 for exit wound).

The pressure dressings I use are these:

T4 Trauma Dressing Pad with Elasticated Bandage - SP Services (UK) Ltd

Buy a couple (even a training, non sterile version available) so you are familiar with their use. They even do them in cammo!

 

[derek.snr]

Unless you can prove me otherwise I don't believe there is a commercially available kit that is 'fit for purpose'. The first aid 'kits' that you buy seem to be aimed at minor cuts/blisters and scrapes, the sort of thing that you wouldn't come to much harm if left totally untreated. Where a first aid kit matters are situations of life and death, with some comfort items if space allows.

My take would be to decide what are the most serious injuries that you could sustain and what is most likely. Another aspect is that a lot of shooting is a solitary activity and what can be used for self care or a single item that can take on a number of separate uses. A serious laceration is probably the most severe life threataning injury you may sustain and a large pressure dressing is needed here. If you may be treating other people then your personal protection is vital and some disposable gloves and a resuscitation face mask could go a long way to protect you.

This is my take on a kit for personal use for various outdoor activities. I have a very much more substantial kit in the car with enough stuff to deal with more serious injuries such as an RTA.

The bag is about 15cm by 8cm and 6cm deep. I replaced the zips with paracord and large ends to make it quiet and easy to open if injured and self-treating. It folds out and I usually have a pair of nitrile gloves free in the middle. It fits in a bumbag or wax jacket pocket, but does have a belt loop that I personally don't use.

The listing is as follows:
2 pairs nitrile gloves
1 size 4 vacuum packed trauma dressing (with elasticated pressure bandage)
2 hypodermic needles (splinters)
2 sterile scalpel blades
Roll of 25mm elastoplast
small pack of mixed plasters (good quality)
Lip balm
2 20ml saline eye wash pods
resuscitation face shield
antiseptic wipes
2 blood stopper nasal plugs
2 small sachets of burn gel
clinical waste bag
2 ibuprofen and codeine tablets (reasonably strong painkiller/anti-inflammatory)
6 loperamide (generic Immodium)
4 chlorphenamine (anti-histamine)

My biggest dilemma is wanting to add ever more stuff to it! I have a draw full of spare first aid gear. In most of my coats I have a small kit with some gloves and a dressing pad and resuscitation shield. I carry a few plasters in my wallet. I have toyed with a haemostatic agent but realistically all bleeding will stop with sufficient pressure, we amputate cows claws and a pressure bandage is all that keeps them from bleeding to death. Also remember that if you deem a gun shot wound to be a significant risk you need 2 decent dressings (1 for entry 1 for exit wound).

The pressure dressings I use are these:

T4 Trauma Dressing Pad with Elasticated Bandage - SP Services (UK) Ltd

Buy a couple (even a training, non sterile version available) so you are familiar with their use. They even do them in cammo!

top kit matey doubt you can better it with a off the shelf kit.

 

[Moray Outfitting]

All

Thank you for all the contributions - come so thick and fast that wondering if end October perhaps dragging things out? My purposes aside, I think this thread is useful and hopefully prompting some thought - or further thought.

If anybody swayed by the thread to sort out a kit where not previously had one, I would say hold fire a short while longer - not an attempt to secure trade for our business - but as has emerged from the posts above, I think there are very few off the shelf kits that really hit the spot. Some of the specific kits are also incredibly expensive. I think given state of play on the thread I'll give it the weekend and then perhaps put forward some of our thoughts on it. Or is that better in a separate thread - admin advice welcome!

Chunk - no embarrassment required at all - you are 90% further down the right road than a good portion of people!
Del Snr - absolutely. Actual key components are very few - in fact far better a few key things that are easy enough to have with you there and then - than a huge trauma kit miles away with tubey things in it that you're not sure about! Knowledge is the lightest kit to carry and should come first.

See another thread started enquiring about offerring stalker first aid training - no axe to grind here. Maybe something we would look at adding in due course, but we wish him well. Believe first aid is 'just' a part of what we do. Not looking to make it a subject in itself - but just raise the base line a little - so we can be sorted then forget about it until needed. So all input welcome.

 

[finnbear270]

First off, I have to agree that you must know how to use whatever you carry, be it a knife, or a rifle, the same applies to first aid equipment, over the years I have been on many first aid courses, the more focussed ones dealing with serious injuries are the best in my view, However , back to the kit, I take a small box that is normally used to house business cards, & everything bar the trauma pad and survival bag goes in it, contents are, small roll insulation tape, (no plasters), couple safety pins,spare personal medication for two days,safety razor blade,an eye pad,a few sterile wipes, three triple A batteries for the head torch.

 

[caorach]

I'm going to buck the general trend and say that I don't carry a first aid kit at all though I do generally have spare boot laces and some plasters in a small bag.

Looking at where I stalk my first plan for emergency is to get out, or call someone out, but I'm sure everyone can see the flaw in this as a plan.

If I can't get out and don't have a mobile signal then my next plan is to wait for someone to come and find me and my best guess puts this at 12 - 24 hours unless I'm lucky with the timing of the accident. Most serious medical emergencies (as opposed to trauma type injury) there is nothing I can do about them, even with a first aid kit, other than hope someone finds me before it kills me and making my best effort to get out or get a mobile signal. In terms of trauma again I figure that there is a large range of trauma for which the only solution is external help - head injury, broken bones and the like. In my view, apart from the comfort things for minor blister type events, when I'm alone and isolated the only major trauma that I stand a chance of treating is significant bleeding. With that in mind I have been following the progress of the various clotting type powders and dressings as having some of that stuff handy is the only thing I can see that could make a major difference. Has anyone used it for real? Does anyone who is knowledgable on these matters know how well it works and if it is actually useful for the situations we are considering?

Perhaps others with more knowledge and experience would read this and correct me if I'm wrong as, although I've got some first aid training, I have no actual experience of trauma situations in isolated areas and so really don't have the first clue as to what happens in the real world.

 

[Apache]

Perhaps others with more knowledge and experience would read this and correct me if I'm wrong as, although I've got some first aid training, I have no actual experience of trauma situations in isolated areas and so really don't have the first clue as to what happens in the real world.

I will start you a new thread so as not to derail this one. Give me a few minutes

 

[scrun63]

Following on from my suggestion for a tourniquet to be included in the FAK I have now read Apache's post re treating a major bleed. There is a minor disagreement whether a tourniquet should be left applied for up to 2 hours or eased every 10 minutes.

Moray, if you are thinking of putting a FAK together it might be worth including in a disclaimer along the lines of - the contents of the kit should only be used if you know how to use the equipment properly and no liability is accepted if used wrongly and any injury etc occurs. That way if someone misuses the kit at least you are covered and i've seen some very spurious cases issued indeed

Atb

Scrun

 

[Moray Outfitting]

Apache have gone over and read thread yet - next thing to do.

Scrun - if you thought the 'debates' over DSC1 etc got involved, the first aid scene is a whole new world

Part of what we hope to do is keep it simple - very much approach to users of a kit rather than enthusiasts ( for want of a better term ). In addition, I can never remember the technical spellings - let alone pronounce them

Torniquets and Haemo/ hemostasy/ blood clotty stuff are just two examples of a somewhat raging debate in first aid circles.

I'll pop off and have a look at Apaches thread.

 

[ezzy6.5]

I asked my wife to asemble me a FAK for the car, unfortunately she made me a kit that a paramedic would have been scratching there heads at (her line of work) I explained that i wouldnt know what to do with it so she made me a small kit and included a basic first aid book in with it. Last year my lab tore his ear open on some barbed wire and i nearly lost him by the time we got to the vets as it was 4 in the morning. Since then i have got the vet to give me a dog first aid course and bought some bits of her. I now have a combination human/dog kit in the game bag and a bigger kit in the car. small mirror,tweezers, micropore tape are most used items.

 

[Tikka-scot]

1 Ex Squaddie so it makes sense to have one ..... In house and always carry one in my shooting odds and sods box when i go out .
2 Never used it yet
3 Lets face it if the worst happens the dressing are too small ,wouldnt last 2 mins but then again its supposed to be basic
4 N/A
5 To easy to use the off the shelf one instead of taking time to make a good one up
6 Basic but good quality stuff would work
7 Never used them

Brian

 

[Moray Outfitting]

Scrun

Part of reason sitting on hands - great care required in advice offerred and there are both regulatory and moral issues with what items can be / should be provided.

Intent is evolve a good basic kit aimed specifically at stalkers and work out some way of making available suitable, safe basic advice to accompany it. - both in terms of planning and application.

Given way things developing and general thrust of discussion I'll amend prize to either Webtex SFAK or custom assembled pack to same value from stock we carry/ will carry - make sense?

 

[bogtrotter]

IMO the most important part of a First Aid Kit is a First Aid Course, I know that that sounds simplistic but how many people do you know that carry a First Aid Kit and know little more than how to apply a plaster.


Having done several First Aid Courses over the last thirty years ranging from First Aid in the Work Place a one day
course to First Aid First which is normally 4 days with a one day refresher every three years.

The course I found most relevant to stalking was the Ion Jones course which was designed for mountain rescue, unfortunately I don't think this course is available any longer, as some of the content is now out of date.

One needs to consider what is most relevant to you as a stalker, the requirements may be vastly different from what
the urban stalker needs in a kit to what those of us in hills who can be three or four hours from habitation need.

Firstly consider the most likely situations a stalker will encounter

This is my take on the most likely order of conditions a stalker may encounter.

1 Sprains and broken bones

2 Cuts in varying severity

3 Hypothermia

4 Heart attacks

5 Hypoglycaemia

There are of course others that you could encounter Epilepsy, Heat stroke you could go on and on but the First Aider can never cover all eventualities.

Some have mentioned bullet wounds and of course it could happen God forbid, but just how likely is it, and even if it did
how likely is survival and how much assistance could the average First Aider give.

So my thoughts on what a First Aid Kit should contain apart from the obvious Bandages, sling, tweezers, scissors, plasters or insulating tape.

Mobile phone but remember in a lot of cases especially in the Highlands you can't get reception, so its worth considering some type of flare system there are types that are small enough to fit in a pocket , though some require a FAC should not be a problem for those who have been already granted one for a rifle.

Hand held GPS is also not a bad idea

Survival blanket or bag, Hypothermia can be a real killer in the hills.

Hypoglycaemia, isotonic sports drink preferably, failing that a Mars bar or similar.

Aspirin preferably 300mg but any strength will do for Angina or suspected Heart attack, though remember a First Aider
cannot administer medication, though a fully conscious adult casualty is capable of deciding if they wish to take medication that may help them.

Those are just my thoughts and opinions on the subject, there may be things I have omitted, and others will have there own ideas.

 

[Moray Outfitting]

Bogtrotter

Thank you. Just read your other post regards stag in your trousers ( maybe paraphrasing there ) - you have always been very supportive of us - but you needn't go to those extremes to support our threads!

Seriously - glad ok. Maybe just the way you described it, but suspect all my expertise may have been rendered temporarily useless by tears of laughter

 

[Eric the Red]

If you have a kit, why did you buy it? Where do you keep it?
I have two kits - a small base one in my stalking rucksack and a more comprehensive one in my car. Purchased as it's sensible - and has been far too useful over the years!!

Have you used it and if so, was the content effective?
Elements have been useful, but I tend to discard a fair amount of what is in purchased kits and replace it with more useful items that suppliers aren't allowed to put in kits for one reason or another - even paracetamol.....

What do you like and dislike about what you have?
I like the fact that I now have what I think I need. I dislike having to put it together myself in a piecemeal fashion, having to remember when to replace the items that go out of date (and then forking out again!) and buying unnecessary/inappropriate items in standard kits

If you don’t have a FaK, what would prompt you to get one?
N/A

How much do you think about your needs and how much do you just rely on an off the shelf kit?
I have not found an off the shelf kit suitable for my needs. I try to cover realistic eventualities and revisit this when I redo my risk assessments

Would a basic kit in a simple bag – to fit your pocket, pack or existing pouch appeal. One with a few essential items, just enough components but of good quality?
Yes. What would be even better would be to be able to add bespoke items from a 'menu' and to be able to buy refills/replacements easily - and as for a reminder that I need to replace stuff.....

Anyone have an off the shelf kit where the plasters actually stick?
No. Another user of duct tape/ insulating tape when needed, although Micropore is pretty good.

 

[jay222]

ive got an off the shelf kit that i bought for camping and hiking trips have added a few items such as extra dressings and painkillers, in all honesty though i rarely remember to take it with me when out shooting . also have a larger kit at home, luckily only had limited use of either and nothing too serious. have done several first aid courses and i think first aid should be a school subject to give everyone a better base of knowledge to work with. ive seen some terrible first aid administered at rugby matches

 

[Moray Outfitting]

Thank you all for input to date.

Conscious that easy to do something to death and gets a bit stale so - unless any major objections - will bring close date forward to next Monday - 17th October. At that point will PM the winner and we can discuss what they would prefer in terms of prize as mentioned previously.

It is interesting how many posters utilise a layered approach - personal 'mini kit' and larger unit in car etc - very good approach in my view.

Only disappointment as such is very little response from people who have nothing sorted. Really not intending to be judgmental etc and I can understand not particularly wanting to pitch in - but it would be really useful to know mindset, what would change your mind etc. I do appreciate it is something of a subject - particularly if gets too geeky/ techy.

Aim is to get as many people as possible aware - without preaching -and try to steer the subject in direction most relevant for us - stalkers. Whether kit comes from us or elsewhere is not important.