First Stalking Set-up - Which Scope?
- Thread starter JMikeyH
- Start date
Excellent arguments above budget wise and either way fixed or zoom...and I agree second hand is best on a tight budget.
Have you any idea what your main shooting is going to be?
I put many more rounds (50:1) through the rifle at the range practising and load developing rather than at deer, so having the 12 times zoom is useful there, the zoom fin is always returned to vertical which is around 7-ish ready for hunting.
My friend who often outshoots me at the range has fixed magnification, though I think it is skill rather than the scopes that gives him the advantage!
I came at the scope choice having had zoom scopes on my air rifles, when it came to the centre and rim fire I bought the same...the .308 has a 3x12x50 illuminated Swarovski bought second hand with the rifle.
Alan
Have you any idea what your main shooting is going to be?
I put many more rounds (50:1) through the rifle at the range practising and load developing rather than at deer, so having the 12 times zoom is useful there, the zoom fin is always returned to vertical which is around 7-ish ready for hunting.
My friend who often outshoots me at the range has fixed magnification, though I think it is skill rather than the scopes that gives him the advantage!
I came at the scope choice having had zoom scopes on my air rifles, when it came to the centre and rim fire I bought the same...the .308 has a 3x12x50 illuminated Swarovski bought second hand with the rifle.
Alan
rms364
Well-Known Member
I went for a Leopold 6x42 for my first stalking rifle, it's a very nice scope, the only time I've wanted more magnification is when zeroing.
I will be swapping it when funds allow as I want it on my other rifle which is set up for a particular permission which is muntjac only and shots are usually 75 yards and under.
I will be swapping it when funds allow as I want it on my other rifle which is set up for a particular permission which is muntjac only and shots are usually 75 yards and under.
Variable everytime. It doesn't need to be top quality glass as you're unlikely to be pushing the light boundaries. One of the slightly cheaper variables will last you much longer. They're also more popular these days so will be an easier sell in the future.
So many people recommend fixed power but when you look at their set up they'reusing variable scopes which says it all really.
So many people recommend fixed power but when you look at their set up they'reusing variable scopes which says it all really.
norma 308
Well-Known Member
Yes great optics add a red dot to that reticle and you have yrself a quality budget scopeJust been looking at the S+B scopes on Optic warehouse, is this the one you two chaps were speaking of?
Search results for: 'product schmidt bender klassik 8x56 hungarian'
www.opticswarehouse.co.uk
Did I mention I have one for sale £500 posted pm for details
So you're just trying to persuade someone to buy your scope then Norma? I bet you're using a variable yourself aren't you?
norma 308
Well-Known Member
Only because my eyes are 52yrs old now but I have red dots on everything now much much better for me
My fox rifle is fixed less time to alter just point and shoot
scrumbag
Well-Known Member
I always think it is very hard to go wrong with a good quality 3-12x50 (or x 56) scope.
3x is good for walking around with, 12x will be good for zeroing or if you do want longer shots. 7x or 8x with that lense will give you a good compromise for shooting in low light. (2.5-10x would also work well).
I'd advise if you can go German or Austrian in terms of maker:
Zeiss, Leica, Swarovski, Schmidt und Bender, Kahles, Docter, Karl Kaps and Meopta (Though I hear Minox are really coming on too and yes I know Meopta are Czech). No one else lives with those guys for light transmission which will be your friend.
Reticles: Avoid anything too fancy and fine with hash marks all over the place. They are not that quick or instinctive to use and can be hard to see against a dark bodied deer in not great light. If you can get it, something like a number 4 reticle with an illuminated centre dot, that is what I reckon is optimal but don't worry too much illumination is out of your budget.
Most deer legal centrefire chamberings and ammo combinations have a maximum point blank range of very close to 200yds which translates to between 1.5-2" high at 100yds. Most deer shot are within that range so it will be just point and shoot.
Don't be a afraid of going second hand from a reputable dealer and you should be able to get something that will suit you.
After that, enjoy your shooting!
Scrummy
3x is good for walking around with, 12x will be good for zeroing or if you do want longer shots. 7x or 8x with that lense will give you a good compromise for shooting in low light. (2.5-10x would also work well).
I'd advise if you can go German or Austrian in terms of maker:
Zeiss, Leica, Swarovski, Schmidt und Bender, Kahles, Docter, Karl Kaps and Meopta (Though I hear Minox are really coming on too and yes I know Meopta are Czech). No one else lives with those guys for light transmission which will be your friend.
Reticles: Avoid anything too fancy and fine with hash marks all over the place. They are not that quick or instinctive to use and can be hard to see against a dark bodied deer in not great light. If you can get it, something like a number 4 reticle with an illuminated centre dot, that is what I reckon is optimal but don't worry too much illumination is out of your budget.
Most deer legal centrefire chamberings and ammo combinations have a maximum point blank range of very close to 200yds which translates to between 1.5-2" high at 100yds. Most deer shot are within that range so it will be just point and shoot.
Don't be a afraid of going second hand from a reputable dealer and you should be able to get something that will suit you.
After that, enjoy your shooting!
Scrummy
Woodsmoke
Well-Known Member
I use a Hawke Endurance 8x56 on my .270, and I cannot fault it under any conditions I've used it under so far. Even under very low light conditions it rivals much more expensive glass. Add a lifetime, transferable warranty, and you're onto a winner. Seriously, have a look at them?
uk.hawkeoptics.com
HAWKE UK | Hawke Riflescope
Offering innovative products tailored to meet the needs of shooters and hunters, with creative features that provide users with products that are rich in benefits, excellent value and are backed with exemplary customer
Having variable is useful IMO - You dont need loads of zoom but 2-10 or 2-12 is good. Get a 30mm tube on it and a a decent sized objective lens (42-50mm)
You can wind it up for range use and down for driven boar or close in woodland stalking, plus in low light winding it down will give you another 10-15 mins of light.
JMHO and others may have a different view - I just find this works well for me.
You can wind it up for range use and down for driven boar or close in woodland stalking, plus in low light winding it down will give you another 10-15 mins of light.
JMHO and others may have a different view - I just find this works well for me.
James0586
Well-Known Member
You will get a cracking Hawke scope for £500 all singing all dancing.
Schmidt’s are great scopes and I have an 8x56 however a friend of mine shoots a new hawke scope on his .243 and it’s spot on. The glass is clear and your budget allows you to get a much bigger scope ( variable & illuminated etc) for your money. Worth a look.
I was always taught pay more for the scope than the rifle however everyone’s budgets are different.
Good luck
Schmidt’s are great scopes and I have an 8x56 however a friend of mine shoots a new hawke scope on his .243 and it’s spot on. The glass is clear and your budget allows you to get a much bigger scope ( variable & illuminated etc) for your money. Worth a look.
I was always taught pay more for the scope than the rifle however everyone’s budgets are different.
Good luck
tikka_shooter
New Member
8x56 S&B is a wonderful scope. Crystal clear optics and holds its value.
The bottom has dropped out of the 6x42 market so you can get a swarovski pf 6x42 for no more than £200. This will run close to an S&b 8x56 at last light , can be mounted lower and is less bulky/heavy.
FWIW I think that for the first 100 odd deer if you can't shoot it with a 6x42 you shouldn't be shooting it. My son is starting out and I have given him a 4x32. I want his first deer shot broadside, in plain view and in decent light. In a year or two he can move to a variable so he can shoot abroad by which time the variable he would have bought today will be worth half at best and the 4x32 can be a spare or a £100 paperweight.
FWIW I think that for the first 100 odd deer if you can't shoot it with a 6x42 you shouldn't be shooting it. My son is starting out and I have given him a 4x32. I want his first deer shot broadside, in plain view and in decent light. In a year or two he can move to a variable so he can shoot abroad by which time the variable he would have bought today will be worth half at best and the 4x32 can be a spare or a £100 paperweight.
If you can stretch to it then buy the variable Delta Titanium and not have to worry about getting another scope. I have one on my .243 and can't fault it. Mount it using Burris Zee Signature rings which I think optics warehouse have on sale at present. The Delta has a 10 yr warranty, illum cental dot which is tiny and very adjustable. PA is smooth and precise. You get a huge amount and quality for the price.
If you want fixed power then lots of v well price S/H quality glass about. A call to Gregor in Scotland would be a very good place to start.
D
If you want fixed power then lots of v well price S/H quality glass about. A call to Gregor in Scotland would be a very good place to start.
D
I believe Best old school advice to a newbee deer stalker, is to start with a fixed low mag high quality scope with a smallish objective. 6X42 is ideal IMHO.
The reasons for this are:-
Unless you are night shooting & need the very best light gathering, you don't need a 56mm objective. (32 through 50mm is adequate). - Beginners shouldn't be night shooting IMHO.
The smaller diameter of 42mm permits the scope to be set in low mounts on the rifle to give proper cheek weld on a sporter rifle stock without a comb raiser.
-- far too many people have scopes set too high & wonder why they keep missing. Rifle fit is paramount!
Six power is more than adequate for deer stalking at ranges that a beginner should be shooting. - Remember the old saying " If you can't see it don't shoot it & get closer". 200 yards is a long way for a beginner to shoot a deer & six power is fine for that.
If you go to eight power & above & get close to a deer (eg in woodland), you won't have enough field of view to choose the aim point easily. - Especially on bigger deer. A good wide field of view is a great advantage & promotes safer shooting.
Having a large diameter & heavy lump of a scope unbalances the rifle significantly making it more difficult to quickly get on target.
Smaller scopes are lighter, suffer less from recoil are less likely to get knocked, have less glass surface to keep rain & dirt off.
It is quite surprising - If you get a couple of new shooters, one with a low power scope & one with a large Joderell Bank high power scope shooting side by side, often the chap using the low power scope shoots tighter groups quicker.
Variable scopes have more to go wrong & there is a temptation for shooters to twiddle too much & this wasts time & detracts from the primary purpose which is shooting deer.
Also as stated previously small, high quality low power fixed mag scopes are much cheaper on the second hand market.
Save cash for training & outings with experienced people - that way you learn more & quicker!
If after a while & with experience a change of scope to a variable is desired, the "starter scope" can be moved onto another rifle. -- My Swarovski 6x42 now sits on my 22LR bunny gun & is good for quarry out to as far as needed (130 yards on bunnies is doable).
Ian
The reasons for this are:-
Unless you are night shooting & need the very best light gathering, you don't need a 56mm objective. (32 through 50mm is adequate). - Beginners shouldn't be night shooting IMHO.
The smaller diameter of 42mm permits the scope to be set in low mounts on the rifle to give proper cheek weld on a sporter rifle stock without a comb raiser.
-- far too many people have scopes set too high & wonder why they keep missing. Rifle fit is paramount!
Six power is more than adequate for deer stalking at ranges that a beginner should be shooting. - Remember the old saying " If you can't see it don't shoot it & get closer". 200 yards is a long way for a beginner to shoot a deer & six power is fine for that.
If you go to eight power & above & get close to a deer (eg in woodland), you won't have enough field of view to choose the aim point easily. - Especially on bigger deer. A good wide field of view is a great advantage & promotes safer shooting.
Having a large diameter & heavy lump of a scope unbalances the rifle significantly making it more difficult to quickly get on target.
Smaller scopes are lighter, suffer less from recoil are less likely to get knocked, have less glass surface to keep rain & dirt off.
It is quite surprising - If you get a couple of new shooters, one with a low power scope & one with a large Joderell Bank high power scope shooting side by side, often the chap using the low power scope shoots tighter groups quicker.
Variable scopes have more to go wrong & there is a temptation for shooters to twiddle too much & this wasts time & detracts from the primary purpose which is shooting deer.
Also as stated previously small, high quality low power fixed mag scopes are much cheaper on the second hand market.
Save cash for training & outings with experienced people - that way you learn more & quicker!
If after a while & with experience a change of scope to a variable is desired, the "starter scope" can be moved onto another rifle. -- My Swarovski 6x42 now sits on my 22LR bunny gun & is good for quarry out to as far as needed (130 yards on bunnies is doable).
Ian
Chasey
Well-Known Member
I listened to every one and got a 8X56 fixed my one was a swawrovski
Useless in the woods at close range and not great at 150m+
It has a sweet spot at 60- 100m but thats it.
Binned it four months later and got a 3 X 12 X 50 Zeiss Duralite with red dot
It was a very good scope and yes I eventually sold it and got a Z6i Swarovski 2.5 15 56 but thats was just self indulgence as it was perfectly adiquate
Useless in the woods at close range and not great at 150m+
It has a sweet spot at 60- 100m but thats it.
Binned it four months later and got a 3 X 12 X 50 Zeiss Duralite with red dot
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It was a very good scope and yes I eventually sold it and got a Z6i Swarovski 2.5 15 56 but thats was just self indulgence as it was perfectly adiquate
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