Fixed scope dilemma.

New Avon Arms
K

Karhumies

Well-Known Member
So i have been running some old Zeiss diatal, meopta meopro 6x42, meostar 7x50, and a lot more vintage stuff. Now iam setting up my ultimate moonlight rifle and iam researching new glass.

I have however hit a bit of a wall. On one hand i have been told that old scopes can never compete with modern lens coatings. Yet my old zeiss wipes the floor with my friends modern 1000 euro variables once it gets dark.

My options are a brand new Kaps 8x56, a brand new S&B 8x56 or an older zwarovski habicht nova 8x56 illuminated wich is priced the same as the new scopes.

looking at comparisons online i find alot of conflicting reviews and none of them seem to weight the zwaro vs NEW S&B/Kapps, only old vs old.

Anyone have experience? il jump on wichever one is going to give me the best performance regardless of age. For daytime i use my meoptas (wider view) and at night my zeiss diatal west germany, that is the one iam looking to upgrade. The usecase is purely getting the absolute best most detailed image on a cloudy night. Searching is done with binoculars.
 
By extension, the 1000 euro question: if iam going to buy 1 fixed 8x56 scope for the next decade, either new or old wich models should i hunt down? iam not opposed to ordering a klassik straight from kapps or a classic hungaria. But i have never looked trough these scopes or an old swarovski, my top scope is a west german Zeiss diatal T*
 
Nothing wrong now, but given its age i imagine there has to be something newer/better at least with regard to coatings and the like
 
Klenchblaize said:
The old Swarovski 6 and 4 power fixed-power Habicht scopes will be hard to beat even though they are some way from having a 50mm objective.

K
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think old swaro beats modern made kapps klassic or S&B hungaria? i cant ever find a clear answer on wether those are actually made with updated coating or just a continuation of the old glass, in wich case i may as well grab a vintage.

8x56 is a must for me however, i have good 6x42 as well but my 8x56 and its rifle are paired with seperate spotting equipment and are used in the darkest hours of the night, not only for deer but racoondogs and hare as well. That magnification makes the difference between a well placed shot or wondering wich of the black shapes out there was the bunny. with my 6x42 i couldnt shoot a racoondog at 100m unless there is snow or a full moon. My zeiss 8x56 can do that for about a week in the month (if the sky is clear). The extra magnification is essential really since this wil be a very specialised setup and FoV isnt really a concern.

I also use a cheek riser for those big scopes and alot of experience knowing my hold over/hold under based on the size of The animal in the reticle.
 
The S&B 8x56 is made for shooting Boar over moonlit fields so should be on your shortlist. Much of course will depend on your individual eyesight much like binoculars.
 
Koenig said:
The S&B 8x56 is made for shooting Boar over moonlit fields so should be on your shortlist. Much of course will depend on your individual eyesight much like binoculars.
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interesting point. You mean a modern maxe S&B hungaria for instance? that was the first scope i considered. As for eyesight, maybe thats why the zeiss T* coating looks better to me than my friends meopta R1 3-12x56 for instance
 
Karhumies said:
think old swaro beats modern made kapps klassic or S&B hungaria? i cant ever find a clear answer on wether those are actually made with updated coating or just a continuation of the old glass, in wich case i may as well grab a vintage.

8x56 is a must for me however, i have good 6x42 as well but my 8x56 and its rifle are paired with seperate spotting equipment and are used in the darkest hours of the night, not only for deer but racoondogs and hare as well. That magnification makes the difference between a well placed shot or wondering wich of the black shapes out there was the bunny. with my 6x42 i couldnt shoot a racoondog at 100m unless there is snow or a full moon. My zeiss 8x56 can do that for about a week in the month (if the sky is clear). The extra magnification is essential really since this wil be a very specialised setup and FoV isnt really a concern.

I also use a cheek riser for those big scopes and alot of experience knowing my hold over/hold under based on the size of The animal in the reticle.
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It’s not a choice between “an old Swarovski” or a ‘modern S&B Hungaria. The PF series Swarovski’s immediately preceded the current Z series & have just as high is not higher light transmission plus very similar other optical qualities. The PF’s are a more ‘modern’ optical design than the ‘classic’ S&B’s.
 
webley701 said:
It’s not a choice between “an old Swarovski” or a ‘modern S&B Hungaria. The PF series Swarovski’s immediately preceded the current Z series & have just as high is not higher light transmission plus very similar other optical qualities. The PF’s are a more ‘modern’ optical design than the ‘classic’ S&B’s.
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that is Good to know! since they are being made today it stood to reason the technology used would be up to date (like the meopta 7x56 r1 wich i cant ever seem to track down or the R2 8x56 wich is rarer than a zebra in greenland it seems) So they reality didnt modernise the glass on them? Then i should really track one down.
 
It does raise the question, how outdated is my zeiss really? i have assumed there is something newer and better out there.

1000019166.webp
 
Klenchblaize said:
Perhaps the only way to establish this is to grap a current variable Leica, or some such, with a 56mm objective and compare when set st 8-power?

K
Click to expand...
i dont own anything like that, and not mutch interest in a variable. I had assumed a S&B or kapps 8x56 made in 2025 would be steps above one from 1990. but if that isnt the case, maybe i dont need to upgrade after all
 
Karhumies said:
that is Good to know! since they are being made today it stood to reason the technology used would be up to date (like the meopta 7x56 r1 wich i cant ever seem to track down or the R2 8x56 wich is rarer than a zebra in greenland it seems) So they reality didnt modernise the glass on them? Then i should really track one down.
Click to expand...
The S&B ‘classic’ series are called ‘classic’ for good reason - their optical design pre-dates some of the last Zeiss fixed power scopes (such as the 7x50) & certainly the Swarovski PF series (which are the best there’s been). This doesn’t mean the S&B 6x42 & 8x56 are inadequate - they are superb optics - but they are on the long & heavy side (relative to magnification & lens diameter) plus the Swarovski PF’s for instance have better optical qualities; the S&B’s are also more prone to flare.

If you are happy with your current scope (which is excellent) then the differences in optical quality in real world/use terms between it & the latest (last) fixed power designs made by Zeiss & Swarovski will be small. What you may get from other scopes is possibly a reduction in length / weight & the option of illumination (which may or may not be important to you). I doubt I’d be looking at replacing yours with a Meopta though.
 
webley701 said:
The S&B ‘classic’ series are called ‘classic’ for good reason - their optical design pre-dates some of the last Zeiss fixed power scopes (such as the 7x50) & certainly the Swarovski PF series (which are the best there’s been). This doesn’t mean the S&B 6x42 & 8x56 are inadequate - they are superb optics - but they are on the long & heavy side (relative to magnification & lens diameter) plus the Swarovski PF’s for instance have better optical qualities; the S&B’s are also more prone to flare.

If you are happy with your current scope (which is excellent) then the differences in optical quality in real world/use terms between it & the latest (last) fixed power designs made by Zeiss & Swarovski will be small. What you may get from other scopes is possibly a reduction in length / weight & the option of illumination (which may or may not be important to you). I doubt I’d be looking at replacing yours with a Meopta though.
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A friend owns the r1 7x56 and that is a different beast to my eyes, if any scope could turn night into day its that one. We asked meopta and it has the same glass as The meostar r1 3-12x56 wich is known in Finland as the best "affordable" scope for this job.

I long for the day someone comes out with an actual updated top of the modern coating line fixed power. That would be some special beast for us who cant use IR/thermal. Like a 8x56 with the "polar" glass
 
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