Frankford Arsenal and AMP Annealing in the morning...

Stalker62

Well-Known Member
Yesterday found me dicking about at Bisley.

One of the rifles I took is an old (obsolete calibre) 8x58RD Rifle.

It has a rolling block action, and I had made up some black powder rounds for it. Having fired off about five rounds, I got as much pleasure from the rest of the Squad having a shot or two with it.

This extraordinary generous display of my good nature left me with an opportunity.:rolleyes:

So this morning I broke out the Frankford Arsenal stainless steel, tumbling cleaner thingy.

All brass was deprimed (well done S62 you are making progress...) and left tumbling for three hours down in the 'Man Shed" in a solution of tap water and some magic potion from Frankford.

When finished the inside of the drum looked murky...

IMG_3852.jpeg

Carefully decanting the brass, left me quietly surprised.

IMG_3853.jpeg


I drained off the rest of the water and poured it gingerly down Mrs.S62's kitchen sink - carefully trying not to lose any of the tiny steel pins.

Because they were loaded with Black Power the kitchen now has an 'interesting' sulphur aroma...wonder it that will dissipate before she gets home.:oops:

I then stuck the brass in the oven, on a tray for five minutes on the lowest setting. Once 'cooked' I examined each case for signs of a steel pin.

With the next step to AMP anneal them, a steel pin falling out of the brass into the gubbins will prove fatal to the Magic Box and will invalidate the guarantee.







IMG_3854.jpeg

Once I set up the AMP, I tried to use the "Standard" setting for this brass. It did not end well. The brass came out red hot and melting.

It was at this point that I put my "Big Boy Pants" on.

I have never previously used the AZTEC mode of this AMP (because I am a bit IT thick) but the drama with the first piece of brass drove me to it.


This brass is horrendously expensive and this batch is made up of Bertram (predominately) and a few Norma.

To get the exact code for each brand/type and even lot of brass, you have to sacrifice one piece. The Magic Box cooks that piece to death - but in so doing gives you the exact code you need for the rest of the batch.

Here are the first piece of "Standard Code" brass and then the two "Sacrificial" pieces of brass for each manufacturer.


IMG_3856.jpeg


If it helps anyone out there:-

8x58RD Bertram Brass = AMP Annealing code 0122
8x58RD Norma Brass = AMP Annealing code 0155


IMG_3857.jpeg

Once you have these codes you are good to go.

Quite the morning.
 
I would advise against working out the unit cost of anything to do with shooting...

I think that there are companies/folk who provide a service with the AMP and charge c10p per piece of brass.

On that basis, I just have to anneal another 13,976 pieces of brass and I am golden.🤓


PS

At the rate I use cartridges (and hence brass), I anticipate I will break even in...(two plus seven, carry the eight...minus the square root of eleven...)

the year 2170.

Give or take.🥺
 
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I think that there are companies/folk who provide a service with the AMP and charge c10p per piece of brass.

On that basis, I just have to anneal another 13,976 pieces of brass and I am golden.🤓


PS

At rate I use cartridges (and hence brass), I anticipate I will break even in...(two plus seven, carry the eight...minus the square root of eleven...)

the year 2170.

Give or take.🥺
I told Mrs Skunk the reloading will save me money based on factory ammo costs, I failed to mention I shoot more, and the cost of ever more tooling. The time spent secluded in the shop of all things shooting and tinkering may have ruffled her feathers. I am sure the tools are paid for based on volume over about 20 years, not ever did I consider a detailed cost per shot.
 
Just an FYI, a cut up privacy curtain will work to catch all the pins and brass, while allowing it to drain in the sink. I just use an old colander, lined with the curtain material and dump the brass into it for draining. Then into a spinning separator, and from there into the oven for a quick drying. I'd think cheese cloth would work as well...

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Vue-Voi...indow-Curtain-in-Ivory-FZH04LAE4IVY/316516542
 
Just an FYI, a cut up privacy curtain will work to catch all the pins and brass, while allowing it to drain in the sink. I just use an old colander, lined with the curtain material and dump the brass into it for draining. Then into a spinning separator, and from there into the oven for a quick drying. I'd think cheese cloth would work as well...

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Vue-Voi...indow-Curtain-in-Ivory-FZH04LAE4IVY/316516542
How did you explain the big hole in the net curtains to the wife?
 
Hmm. Dodgy things these magnet soooo in the spirit of friendship and helpfulness unique to SD can I just ask if said annealer is metal and if so would it be, er, non-magnetic? If no to the first and/or yes to the supplementary you are indeed golden. If yes to the first and no to the supplementary however may I suggest you first sacrifice, sorry, let Mrs S approach the machine clutching the magnets very firmly whilst you clutch her equally firmly with one arm and “anchor” your remaining limb to something substantial, preferably fixed permanently to a concrete floor?
I am minded of the old rings secured thus in slaughterhouse floors to hold the marginally miffed bull secure whilst the man with the hammer took a second swipe. Of course the analogy would be nothing to the wrath of Mrs S. Just saying…
You’re welcome.
🦊🦊
 
Dodgy things these magnet soooo...

The AMP annealer is indeed composed of a plethora of metals.

At the price they are, I think most of these metals will be platinum and gold.:-|


However, the magnet would never go near the "Box of Magic".

The magnet is for running the cleaned brass over - to remove any of the tiny stainless steel pins from the cleaning process.
Not an issue for other cleaning methods, just those that wet tumble with stainless steel.
 
The AMP annealer is indeed composed of a plethora of metals.

At the price they are, I think most of these metals will be platinum and gold.:-|


However, the magnet would never go near the "Box of Magic".

The magnet is for running the cleaned brass over - to remove any of the tiny stainless steel pins from the cleaning process.
Not an issue for other cleaning methods, just those that wet tumble with stainless steel.
Why don't you deprime, anneal, then clean?
Regards
JCS
 
The magnet is for running the cleaned brass over - to remove any of the tiny stainless steel pins from the cleaning process.
Not an issue for other cleaning methods, just those that wet tumble with stainless steel.
Presumably these ‘stainless’ pins have a high iron content as stainless (as in pots n pans) isn’t “magnet’able”. But, then, they’d go rusty at the drop of a hat.

Plus, these little magnets are bloody strong…..sounds like you’ll be driven to distraction trying to get the pins off them (if they actually stick to them)?

Intrigued…

Cheers

Fizz
 
Why don't you deprime, anneal, then clean?

I think, the logic is that a 'dirty' piece of brass can effect the uniform annealing of it.:-|

I have this in the binder, and suspect it must be from asking the chaps in NZ.


IMG_3888.webp

Additionally, this is a lift from their manual.

What is the correct sequence - anneal/resize or resize/anneal?​

If annealing brass that has had multiple reloads or is unknown history, we would strongly recommend annealing first followed by resizing. This is because the harder the brass, the more likely it is to resist conforming the resizing die and "springing back".

Our settings target an annealed neck hardness consistent with virgin brass, (some cartridges are a little higher or lower). Because the process anneals both the neck and shoulder, die conformity will be correct when resizing. Note: we have found that the target annealed hardness is reached reliably regardless of the starting hardness i.e. it doesn't matter if it starts at 20% harder or even 70% harder, it will still come back to the same hardness.

If, as we recommend, annealing is done every reload, the brass is always soft enough in the neck and shoulder to resize accurately either before or after annealing. We have, however recorded consistently more unifor hardness test results by annealing before resizing, and we therefore recommend that sequence. With all the potential chamber/die/brass variations, we would certainly welcome input on this subject.
 
are the pins not stainless steel? if so unlikely to be magnetic 😊

"All stainless steel metals are a type of steel. That means their chemical composition contains iron. In most cases, stainless steel varieties with iron in their composition are magnetic. If the alloy has an austenitic crystal structure, then it's not magnetic".:-|



Unknown-10.webp

Alchemy...never my strong point...🧙‍♂️

Stand by for the definitive, when (I have no doubt) it will be added to the long list of disasters that have littered my life.
 
"All stainless steel metals are a type of steel. That means their chemical composition contains iron. In most cases, stainless steel varieties with iron in their composition are magnetic. If the alloy has an austenitic crystal structure, then it's not magnetic".:-|



View attachment 258829

Alchemy...never my strong point...🧙‍♂️

Stand by for the definitive, when (I have no doubt) it will be added to the long list of disasters that have littered my life.
indeed most common stainless steel grades i have ever used are non magnetic, 303, 304, 316 but yes their are versions that are magnetic, fingers crossed your pins are magnetic.
 
The AMP annealer is indeed composed of a plethora of metals.

At the price they are, I think most of these metals will be platinum and gold.:-|


However, the magnet would never go near the "Box of Magic".

The magnet is for running the cleaned brass over - to remove any of the tiny stainless steel pins from the cleaning process.
Not an issue for other cleaning methods, just those that wet tumble with stainless steel.
Aww! I was sooooo looking forward to the video too!
🦊🦊
 
Half of my pins are magnetic, the other batch from a different supplier are not! It’s a pain in the rear when trying to use a magnet so I don’t bother now.

I empty my cases and media onto a sieve over a bucket, then drain the pins and put to one side. The case get dropped on warm clean water and rinsed, dried ready for sizing/trimming, the pins in the warm water are joined with the pins reclaimed from the dirty bucket, cleaned dried and dropped back in their box. Much simpler that it reads tbo.


johnerz
 
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