Got arrested this morning

[finnbear270]

We'll be Q'ing up to collect our firearms from a police armoury next.

 

[Brittany boy]

Yip I’ve had to do that in the past , not police armoury , local RFD after a neighbour made a malicious complaint against me because I went to his door while he was assaulting his missus. Complaint took 18 months to resolve but I got my guns home. None of your shooting organisations will fight your corner in these circumstances, the police just pull out the public safety card,

 

[Silvius]

We'll be Q'ing up to collect our firearms from a police armoury next.

When its convenient, in business hours, for a fee and after getting the outing cleared.

 

[Silvius]

Yip I’ve had to do that in the past , not police armoury , local RFD after a neighbour made a malicious complaint against me because I went to his door while he was assaulting his missus. Complaint took 18 months to resolve but I got my guns home. None of your shooting organisations will fight your corner in these circumstances, the police just pull out the public safety card,

True public safety is the trump card. Unless its a just stop oil protest, or its a fashionable minority having a festival, then it would be wrong to interfere even if they commit crimes or endanger people.

 

[glasshalffull]

Reminds me of the time a mate and I were on the way home late from leaving off a couple of birds after a dance and were stopped at an army checkpoint in the wilds of Northern Ireland. I had mucked out the car that day as I had it sold so had no id to hand and we were told to vacate the vehicle at gunpoint and hit the dirt facedown with our hands behind our heads whilst the vehicle and we were searched. No harm done..

 

[Jeff8861]

Good question. We were verbally told we were under arrest. As a FAC holder one really has no idea about the justice system here, because one has not committed any crimes. I think that arresting you then allows them to search you (because then they might find something to justify the hit?) Again I do not think its fair to search you if you have not looked suspicious. Surely the usual rule applies that they have to have suspicion, just like if they are walking down the road they have to smell cannabis to search the person and then it can all still backfire for them?

My friend was very concerned over this as he is in the UK on a work visa and he feared it might effect the renewal of his visa. He was told it would show up on his record but under it would be a note of released without charge (like that is as good as no record. It is like a not proven verdict, it almost says "we didn't get him that time"). It might be worth mentioning that my friend is is black and stopping and searching people for "watching hunting while black" might not be the best look for the police.

Following arrest were you cautioned and then told of the necessity. Were you de arrested at the conclusion.

 

[hybridfiat]

The reason for the 'over-reaction' is the enrichment of British life through diversity and inclusion that has occurred over the past 20 years.
Our new gun laws here in Western Australia are a similar reaction by the police (they wrote the new laws) who are petrified that a certain culture (that cannot be named) will obtain firearms and raise hell.
This is one of the many ways diversity and multi-culturalism has enriched our lives here in Australia.

 

[markj1]

The reason for the 'over-reaction' is the enrichment of British life through diversity and inclusion that has occurred over the past 20 years.
Our new gun laws here in Western Australia are a similar reaction by the police (they wrote the new laws) who are petrified that a certain culture (that cannot be named) will obtain firearms and raise hell.
This is one of the many ways diversity and multi-culturalism has enriched our lives here in Australia.

Part of the reason for this is that 'profiling' is not permitted in the UK (and in many other Western countries).

This means that two middle aged chaps wearing three-piece tweed suits and walking through the woods while carrying shotguns must be treated by the poluce in exactly the same way as a couple of young lads wearing hoodies lurking in a deserted lorry car park while carrying an object that may look like a firearm.

 

[enfieldspares]

The armed response don’t know who they are going to meet when you walk out the woods to greet them

This. And alas who knows if that walk in the woods with a rifle wasn't to mask a walk in the woods with an old .380 Enfield revolver just to test it out. As I said as a lawful shooter I'd be pretty ****ed if the same as recounted here had happened to me.

But as a member of society also I'd be pretty worried that the police didn't take measures to protect themselves according the nature of the threat that the call they had received indicated. We don't know what was said in that call.

Only knowing what was said can let us judge the reaction received. OTOH I wonder if this also wasn't used as a live training experience for the benefit of some of the officers attending. Pretty much all that we have is elsewise navel gazing.

 

[Bo Diddley]

So, a question to all those on this thread who have life experience in the police force...
Would you have the same concern about being called out to such an incident in a rural setting as you would in a run-down urban setting such as Moss Side in Manchester?
I could understand the response in the Urban setting, but not so much in the rural one.

 

[Rake Aboot]

I’ve been on the wrong end of the police a couple of times and I’m a cop, you can complain all you want but if a member of the public makes the call the police need to respond, the incident will be closed off as false alarm good intent. As has been posted earlier in this thread it’s a good reason to make the control room aware of where you are what your driving who you are with and what weapon you are using to do what you are doing. At least that way if the caller can provide your vehicle details the control room can deal with it then by telling them it’s an authorised shoot and legal activity. This is often reassuring to Joe Public , only an issue if it’s an anti stirring the s**t. The armed response don’t know who they are going to meet when you walk out the woods to greet them

No it’s not.
Should you call the cops and ask if it’s ok to go out as well ? You know, just in case they are too busy to respond to a malicious/ thicko call?

 

[JH83]

You could put in a freedom of information request as to the content of the log?

Then it’ll stop the speculation.

If someone has reported being shot at, or something else malicious, it might explain the response. If it is a case of ‘man seen with gun, in a green jacket, in a wood’ then clearly the constabulary need a bit of direction with regards countryside matters.

In many parts of the country the latter would be instantly downgraded, worst case they’d send a beat bobby to have a polite chat.

 

[Rutland lad]

You could put in a freedom of information request as to the content of the log?

Then it’ll stop the speculation.

If someone has reported being shot at, or something else malicious, it might explain the response. If it is a case of ‘man seen with gun, in a green jacket, in a wood’ then clearly the constabulary need a bit of direction with regards countryside matters.

In many parts of the country the latter would be instantly downgraded, worst case they’d send a beat bobby to have a polite chat.

Sorry, but that’s not quite how it goes these days.

An unarmed officer sent to a potential ‘firearms incident’ ?
Would you like to be the supervisor who does that and if/when it all goes badly and the unarmed officer (or his family) claim you were negligent in doing so? you knew or suspected a firearm was involved but you still sent a man/woman/person to investigate without the means to protect themselves. The HSE would be involved, the Force would be prosecuted and sued.
Quite simply, time has moved on within the Police as everywhere else. They simply cannot leave an expensive resource like an ARV crew out of a ‘firearms incident’ as that’s what they’re there to deal with.
The unarmed officer should be kept well out of the way of any real or suspected firearms job for their own safety.
I’m not saying that if I was stopped in my car for some traffic offence (God forbid) I’d expect a full armed extraction by an ARV crew from behind ‘cover from view or fire’, but the incident would’ve started out as a traffic stop rather than a firearms job.

Plus - I will leave you with this thought.
In my recent experience most of the armed Police I have worked with are VERY young in service. To the extent that you can actually apply to join the ARV’s whilst still in your probation. The relevant courses will not start until you have 2 years service, but you could be selected.
There are reasons for this; the higher fitness level precludes lots of officers with niggling injuries, the yearly medicals with higher levels of hearing and eyesight tests also takes its toll. If you bear in mind that initial Police training is around 6 months, followed by a month or two being tutored, then an officer stepping out of an ARV could have had as little as only 16 months actual Police experience before entering the world of armed Policing. Those officers haven’t got enough background in dealing with people anyway, now they’re doing it with a firearm. It not like giving Dixon Of Dock Green a Glock 17 and expecting that mix of old style coppering backed up with a firearm. As JAGDMATCH posted - once they step outside their SOP’s and policy, they will not be supported by management.

I have a great deal of sympathy with the OP and his friend, but in the world we are currently in I also think the action taken by the officers was sadly, probably correct from the point of view of their training and following their SOP’s and Policies.

However - if he feels he needs to then a letter to the relevant Police Authority could result in something. Perhaps he’d get a chance to sit down with one of the officers managers and put forward his point of view and listen to the reply.
Sometimes this is more revealing and rewarding than a formal Complaint Against Police.

 

[JH83]

Sorry, but that’s not quite how it goes these days.

An unarmed officer sent to a potential ‘firearms incident’ ?
Would you like to be the supervisor who does that and if/when it all goes badly and the unarmed officer (or his family) claim you were negligent in doing so? you knew or suspected a firearm was involved but you still sent a man/woman/person to investigate without the means to protect themselves. The HSE would be involved, the Force would be prosecuted and sued.
Quite simply, time has moved on within the Police as everywhere else. They simply cannot leave an expensive resource like an ARV crew out of a ‘firearms incident’ as that’s what they’re there to deal with.
The unarmed officer should be kept well out of the way of any real or suspected firearms job for their own safety.
I’m not saying that if I was stopped in my car for some traffic offence (God forbid) I’d expect a full armed extraction by an ARV crew from behind ‘cover from view or fire’, but the incident would’ve started out as a traffic stop rather than a firearms job.

Plus - I will leave you with this thought.
In my recent experience most of the armed Police I have worked with are VERY young in service. To the extent that you can actually apply to join the ARV’s whilst still in your probation. The relevant courses will not start until you have 2 years service, but you could be selected.
There are reasons for this; the higher fitness level precludes lots of officers with niggling injuries, the yearly medicals with higher levels of hearing and eyesight tests also takes its toll. If you bear in mind that initial Police training is around 6 months, followed by a month or two being tutored, then an officer stepping out of an ARV could have had as little as only 16 months actual Police experience before entering the world of armed Policing. Those officers haven’t got enough background in dealing with people anyway, now they’re doing it with a firearm. It not like giving Dixon Of Dock Green a Glock 17 and expecting that mix of old style coppering backed up with a firearm. As JAGDMATCH posted - once they step outside their SOP’s and policy, they will not be supported by management.

I have a great deal of sympathy with the OP and his friend, but in the world we are currently in I also think the action taken by the officers was sadly, probably correct from the point of view of their training and following their SOP’s and Policies.

However - if he feels he needs to then a letter to the relevant Police Authority could result in something. Perhaps he’d get a chance to sit down with one of the officers managers and put forward his point of view and listen to the reply.
Sometimes this is more revealing and rewarding than a formal Complaint Against Police.

Yes it is.

The FIM can risk assess it via NDMM and if it looks like an organised shoot an officer can attend, following stay safe principals.

This isn’t speculation

This of course depends on the content of the log…..which we don’t know.

 

[VSS]

However - if he feels he needs to then a letter to the relevant Police Authority could result in something. Perhaps he’d get a chance to sit down with one of the officers managers and put forward his point of view and listen to the reply.
Sometimes this is more revealing and rewarding than a formal Complaint Against Police.

Wise words ^^^

 

[Eddie P]

And then there are incidents like this where a minimal response happens!!

Gun terror as boy shoots ducks and geese in Central Forest Park

Police are investigating

www.stokesentinel.co.uk

 

[Brittany boy]

Where do you think the bad boys go to try out their illegal toys, they don’t do this in the city centre as armed response would be there pretty quickly. Yes they go to the woods or open moors set up a target and have a go , or they just use the nearest road sign before driving off. As others have said we don’t know what was said in the original call, or if information was held on police systems regarding your shoot / wood being used for other purposes. We had a large wooded area next to a commercial shooting ground that criminal gangs were using to hide drugs and weapons. The sound of the shotgun fire masked their illegal activities, ……. Who would have thought .

 

[Bavarianbrit]

Here is the Bavarian training schedule for new cops.
We will train you for 2.5 years in a wide variety of disciplines so that you are well prepared for any operational situation. In five training sections we cover topics from the areas of law, practice and personal development. You train in real cases - from emergency calls to behavior at the scene to case processing. You will be prepared for your future tasks in practice rooms and later in a professional internship at a local police station.
Wir bilden Dich 2,5 Jahre in den unterschiedlichsten Disziplinen aus, damit Du auf jede Einsatzsituation bestens vorbereitet bist. In fünf Ausbildungsabschnitten behandeln wir Themen aus den Bereichen Recht, Praxis und Persönlichkeitsbildung. Du trainierst echte Fälle – vom Notruf über das Verhalten am Einsatzort bis hin zur Sachbearbeitung. In Übungsräumen und später auch im Berufspraktikum bei einer heimatnahen Polizeiinspektion wirst Du so auf Deine zukünftigen Aufgaben vorbereitet.

 

[artschool]

And then there are incidents like this where a minimal response happens!!

Gun terror as boy shoots ducks and geese in Central Forest Park

Police are investigating

www.stokesentinel.co.uk

they might be protected class? and subject to a different tier of policing? hard to tell.

 

[gazmanthegun]

This morning my friend and I had loaded weapons pointed at us, were told to walk with our hands in the air, were handcuffed, were told "you are both under arrest under suspicion of possession of a firearm", our clothes were searched searched and my car was briefly examined visually inside before "Thank you for your cooperation, sorry for the trouble but you will understand we have to investigate reports" This is not on and I would like advice as to how to stop this happening to others.

I would like to say from the start that the officers involved were very polite and I thought them all nice guys but the protocol that allowed this to happen is not fair or proportionate and I think if it is allowed to be considered as OK, then we are on a slippery slope to being guilty until proven innocent, which is a bad position to be in with a gun in your hand.

Of course we had permission, of course we didn't point guns at or near anyone. If fact we didn't point a gun at all -no deer was even seen on the permission where I have shot for years. The policeman in charge told me that he didn't know till they arrived at the scene and he took my registration that I had a FAC. To that point if you want to bring 6 or 7 cars full of armed officers and a dog team to a report of "2 males with a long barrelled weapon seen going into (private) wood (in the countryside with no footpath, exiting car parked within woodland edge from woodland facing side and walking in)" then OK if you can justify the resource allocation but from that point on, when nothing suspicious had been done and I was clearly licensed this was surely heavy handed? Surely a quiet word with an unarmed officer when we emerged from the wood to check we had permission would have been enough? Even then whose business is it to check up on law abiding citizens hunting with a weapon held for only hunting unless there has been poaching in the area or suspicion of poaching? Why should hunting be itself a suspicious activity? Is taking cash out of a bank suspicious in itself? Is driving a car away suspicious in itself?

Did I need to be arrested by armed men? did I need to be handcuffed or searched? The officer in charge said "Sorry we can't be taking chances" but if that sort of thinking is allowed to take root we will all be pushed further and further into corners afraid to assert our rights do do what we have worked hard to be given lawful permission to do. What is suspicious about someone who holds a rifle only for deer stalking to be seen deer stalking? I said to the officer "There are thousands of people out on this Christmas holiday Saturday legally shooting. Would it be right to arrest anyone seen in a field carrying a gun on a sling on their shoulder?" He just said they couldn't take chances and I should phone the police to tell them I am going hunting in advance. This is the state going too far in my opinion.

I expect a number of replies to say "You must have done something suspicious" and "We must all just accept this sort of control and interference in the interests of public safety" but I feel this is going too far. Had it been a report of drug use or burglary the police would likely never have even turned up but more people die from drugs and criminal lifestyles than from guns in this country every year, a lot more. There is a witch hunt out for guns and country sports. If we accept this as OK because we are all too scared to risk going on the naughty list next time we want to renew, where does this end?

In the interests of my fellow sportsmen, I would ideally like someone in charge to simply accept that this was a heavy handed approach and to revise the protocol. I don't know if I really want to go through the misery of pushing for this but right now I feel I should. Can anyone advise me how I would best go about this please?

Thanks

Despicable but sadly representative of the increasing marginalisation of shooting sports in this country. We have to continue to work at educating and involving none shooters in our sport as a way of decreasing (or perhaps limiting the increase) the frequency of incidents such as this.

I hope you get a formal apology and lessons are learned, but this is probable too much to ask.

Most importantly, don’t let this incident put you off!