GSP Prey drive

[TomT3]

Afternoon Ladies and Gents,

Below is Bert my 15 month old GSP. He’s coming on well and does most of the basics as required. Eventually I want to use him for deer. Heel work still needs improvement, he always wants to be a metre in front when on the lead although is a lot better than when he was younger. His recall to whistle WITHOUT distraction is 99.9% and he returns to my side although some what excited every single time. He’s getting confused with the stop whistle, some time he stops and I have to tell him to sit or other times he recalls, I’m not to concerned by this, it just needs to be improved on. My main worry is his chasing when he goes deaf to the whistle. Hares, pigeons, game other dogs and muntjac anything really he’s off. I try the stop whistle and shout no once but he’s gone -completely ignoring me, obviously knowing he can get away with it also. When he eventually returns I don’t scold him but just put the lead back on him. The other day on my mates farm the sheep were out which he ignored until they ran which is when he got excited and pulled on the lead. I obviously corrected him and continued walking. I took him to see the sheep lambing after so he could get close up. He’s been let off the lead since he was young enough so I could enforce his recall, he normally stays at about 50 yards and keeps looking back. I let him get so far then recall him as above. He loves retrieving dummies but does run in sometimes, again something I just need to work on, he always delivers to my hand.

I need help on my main concerns; which are heel work off the lead for deer and my primary concern his chasing. I know gsps mature a lot later, i’m just worried I’ve ruined him by letting him get away with it. Should I just keep him on a long line,not let him off lead then check him as soon as something flushes?
Or I have started to consider a e collar as a last resort, although I’d like to think I can train it out of him before it comes to that, as the other day there was a little spec of light as he went to run to a jogger but then came back to whistle.

He’s my first dog (I done the research before anybody says they’re not a beginners dog) he loves people and our kids and has a lovely temperament he’s currently sitting on my lap I just need a bit of advice from the more experienced GSP or dog owners please.

Thanks

 

[Bowland blades]

Ah , the chasing is your number one priority . we must ignore stock 100% from puppyhood via a sharp lead correction and 90 degree turns (on leash )
As you dog is now of an age i suggest you seek profesional residential help from a trainer who keeps Stock for this very purpose. There is a real chance of you making the issue worse than it already is if the dog will run sheep now !
we must not acknowledge stock and we should correct any interest our dogs have especially when it comes to deer dogs , a look is too much , they really need to blank them . ninety degree or 180 degree fast turns if they even look ! They will soon learn deer are food on legs via tip bits, slots to play with and chew , teasing with heads etc
Its going to be hard for you alone to break this and deer dogs that are keen on sheep are pretty much useless in any area where you might encounter them unless this is very fixed very soon .
E- collars are fast but really need to be used in a way the dog doesn't the collar with correction or a best the dog has to wear one all its life with an owner who is quick on the draw .

 

[Karlo]

Tom he is an absolute beauty and sounds just like mine when I had her. Yes they are slow to mature but he will be the biggest bag filler you will ever have. Mine was so good on point I caught rabbits and birds by hand sometimes. He will get better as he gets older and you are really doing the right thing by not scolding him when he returns. My advice would be to have a long lead when training so if he runs in you blow the stop whistle, if he keeps going you grab the lead and drag him back to the correct point and get him to sit. Repetition of this and lots of praise when he gets it right will over time make things considerably better. It’s then down to you how good it needs to be for you.

 

[sikadog]

The one answer to this is teach him to sit, and never move until you tell him, no matter how far he is away. He can't run off if you have him sitting. Simple

 

[TomT3]

Ah , the chasing is your number one priority . we must ignore stock 100% from puppyhood via a sharp lead correction and 90 degree turns (on leash )
As you dog is now of an age i suggest you seek profesional residential help from a trainer who keeps Stock for this very purpose. There is a real chance of you making the issue worse than it already is if the dog will run sheep now !
we must not acknowledge stock and we should correct any interest our dogs have especially when it comes to deer dogs , a look is too much , they really need to blank them . ninety degree or 180 degree fast turns if they even look ! They will soon learn deer are food on legs via tip bits, slots to play with and chew , teasing with heads etc
Its going to be hard for you alone to break this and deer dogs that are keen on sheep are pretty much useless in any area where you might encounter them unless this is very fixed very soon .
E- collars are fast but really need to be used in a way the dog doesn't the collar with correction or a best the dog has to wear one all its life with an owner who is quick on the draw .

Thanks Bowland

Tom he is an absolute beauty and sounds just like mine when I had her. Yes they are slow to mature but he will be the biggest bag filler you will ever have. Mine was so good on point I caught rabbits and birds by hand sometimes. He will get better as he gets older and you are really doing the right thing by not scolding him when he returns. My advice would be to have a long lead when training so if he runs in you blow the stop whistle, if he keeps going you grab the lead and drag him back to the correct point and get him to sit. Repetition of this and lots of praise when he gets it right will over time make things considerably better. It’s then down to you how good it needs to be for you.

Thanks Karlo, advice taken

 

[Bowland blades]

The one answer to this is teach him to sit, and never move until you tell him, no matter how far he is away. He can't run off if you have him sitting. Simple

And if he is fast disappearing in a chase ? your chances of the stop whistle stopping him dead in a sit are ? This dog is currently chasing stock ( i assume that means sheep etc ?) in my experience that's a heck of a thing to achieve at this stage as the chase is far more rewarding , its different from a spaniel that needs an odd reminder to plonk its backside down on the flush

 

[TomT3]

And if he is fast disappearing in a chase ? your chances of the stop whistle stopping him dead in a sit are ? This dog is currently chasing stock ( i assume that means sheep etc ?) in my experience that's a heck of a thing to achieve at this stage as the chase is far more rewarding , its different from a spaniel that needs an odd reminder to plonk its backside down on the flush

Hi Bowland to clarify he hasn’t actually chased stock yet, but did have his head turned by running sheep when on the lead. Standing sheep, cattle, my chickens etc he’s fine with at present. I just wouldn’t want him off the lead with running sheep until this is sorted. I had him up close sniffing a lamb after with a ewe stamping her feet and checked him if he got too interested. He has seen sheep a fair few times, the runnings what turned his head though I think.

 

[sikadog]

Back to the drawing board it should have been taught at the start.
I was told this by an older picker up who used to stand with between 10 and 12 dogs at a time with never a problem
They can't run off when sitting if taught correctly, he never taught his dogs to stay just sit.

 

[TomT3]

He does sit very well, but yes maybe I should concentrate more on that also -thanks for your comments.

 

[Jon P]

Not got a GSP but keep GWP, livestock sounds to be the biggest issue, dogs often get shot our way for chasing sheep,

Years ago I used to keep terriers and would get some in that weren’t suitable for pet homes and They would be given to me. None were broken to stock and had to be fast, it is probably unethical now but I used to put the terrier in a pen with a ewe and strong lamb, , the terriers soon learnt that sheep were not to be messed with.

But getting professional help if first dog is highly recommended

 

[Dunwaters]

Firstly, that’s a belter of a pup, secondly he’s at the stage where he’s deliberately giving you the finger because he’s working out that if gets out a bit you can do nothing about it.
Don’t let that happen.
Reinforce your normal steadiness training, get him dropped, using hand, voice and whistle, regardless of what’s happening and if he ignores you, stop whistling get out after him and make him do it. If you can’t catch him use a leccy collar, most dogs cop on very quickly, a long lead probably won’t work at this stage because he’ll know whether he’s got it on or not. You can run him in a collar without having it switched on.
I’d be a bit more relaxed about the heel work, a dog a couple of meters ahead will indicate game and is easier to keep an eye on.
Steadiness is the foundation stone of HPR training, get him dropped 100% of the time to flush, shot, fall and whistle. When he stops leave him sitting for a few seconds and vary between sending him on or calling him back.
Best of luck with him, you might try contacting your local HPR club and maybe field trialling.
Worst that can happen is you end up with a well trained dog.

 

[TomT3]

Firstly, that’s a belter of a pup, secondly he’s at the stage where he’s deliberately giving you the finger because he’s working out that if gets out a bit you can do nothing about it.
Don’t let that happen.
Reinforce your normal steadiness training, get him dropped, using hand, voice and whistle, regardless of what’s happening and if he ignores you, stop whistling get out after him and make him do it. If you can’t catch him use a leccy collar, most dogs cop on very quickly, a long lead probably won’t work at this stage because he’ll know whether he’s got it on or not. You can run him in a collar without having it switched on.
I’d be a bit more relaxed about the heel work, a dog a couple of meters ahead will indicate game and is easier to keep an eye on.
Steadiness is the foundation stone of HPR training, get him dropped 100% of the time to flush, shot, fall and whistle. When he stops leave him sitting for a few seconds and vary between sending him on or calling him back.
Best of luck with him, you might try contacting your local HPR club and maybe field trialling.
Worst that can happen is you end up with a well trained dog.

Gents thank you all for your replies they are all greatly received.

 

[Bowland blades]

Hi Bowland to clarify he hasn’t actually chased stock yet, but did have his head turned by running sheep when on the lead. Standing sheep, cattle, my chickens etc he’s fine with at present. I just wouldn’t want him off the lead with running sheep until this is sorted. I had him up close sniffing a lamb after with a ewe stamping her feet and checked him if he got too interested. He has seen sheep a fair few times, the runnings what turned his head though I think.

Your dog should blank sheep , literally like they dont exist ! hence you ignore them and make sure your dog does like they dont exist . The dog should be corrected if it looks at them so way, way before actually running towards them. A sharp turn an a firm "NO "

 

[Dunwaters]

Your dog should blank sheep , literally like they dont exist ! hence you ignore them and make sure your dog does like they dont exist . The dog should be corrected if it looks at them so way, way before actually running towards them. A sharp turn an a firm "NO "

That’s not great real world advice, the dog is not a machine and neither are the sheep.
The dog definitely shouldn’t chase them but to expect it to totally ignore them is unrealistic, there’s also a very real difference between lowland sheep and hill breeds, I’ve had one of mine that was solid with lowland show a lot of interest in little black faced mountain ewes. The little black faces seem to have a very gamey scent.
I run my dogs on both hills and lowland areas, sheep are never far away.
I trust them as far as I see them and not an inch further.

 

[Westley78]

Cracking dog Tom and sounds like you are progressing well with him so don’t beat yourself up.

These dogs are pretty smart and it sounds like he’s realised that there are no consequences for him when he’s off the lead so it’s back to the long and if all else fails you have the option of the e-collar.

I had a similar problem with mine at and the long line just didn’t work so under the supervision of a decent trainer we used and e-collar and within one session it was fixed and I now have full confidence in being able to recall him away from absolutely anything and as a bonus his heel work off lead is now excellent

By the looks of it you are only next door so if you fancy meeting up and swapping notes sometime let me know.

Best of luck

 

[John Gryphon]

Or I have started to consider a e collar as a last resort

The use of the E collar used judiciously will right his current wrongs immediately. Contrary to popular and wrong belief the use will not fry your dog, it will only extend and reinforce the hold over him that you are the boss. Just about any dog will respond after at most three tickles. Once dog has collar on and connects the tickle with it they will without hurting become extremely compliant.
The e collar with the buzzer on it or the alarm is the way to go and if you initiate a system where after two warning buzz`s next is the tickle the dog will never have to wear one again.
Even if the battery is flat the collar is still of use out in the field in early days. I have seen dogs that were charlie mansons realise that it is of no use fighting the tide.

 

[TomT3]

Cracking dog Tom and sounds like you are progressing well with him so don’t beat yourself up.

These dogs are pretty smart and it sounds like he’s realised that there are no consequences for him when he’s off the lead so it’s back to the long and if all else fails you have the option of the e-collar.

I had a similar problem with mine at and the long line just didn’t work so under the supervision of a decent trainer we used and e-collar and within one session it was fixed and I now have full confidence in being able to recall him away from absolutely anything and as a bonus his heel work off lead is now excellent

By the looks of it you are only next door so if you fancy meeting up and swapping notes sometime let me know.

Best of luck

Hi Westley, thanks for that and for the offer of meeting up I’ll bear that in mind

 

[Mickeydredd]

Who bred him Tom?

 

[Bo Diddley]

Don't give up on this dog. Desensitize him to stock by constant exposure to it if you can. Seek some help from someone local that has the skills to help you. As a 1st dog, it was not an easy option, but you will get there with the willpower. keep us all posted with an update, situations like this are interesting.

 

[TomT3]

Who bred him Tom?

Hello Mickey, sire is Jomeel monkey wrench and dam is joalbijack sea holly I believe the dam was from one of Lucie hustlers Aytee litters. I’m sure the litter Bert is from was the first for ‘Riverfarm’ a breeder near Birmingham. Why’s that mate ?