MAH
Well-Known Member
I have an NHS set. A fleece Bob hat works OK. A bit like those fluffy things on a microphone.
M
Hearing aids (not defenders)
- Thread starter polranny
- Start date
M
Hanechdene
Well-Known Member
I have had Phonak and replaced them with Sigma (both behind the ear), wind noise was a problem with both.
If the wind noise is really bad, I end up taking them out
If the wind noise is really bad, I end up taking them out
Long hair helps!
Interesting to see how many of us wear aids - maybe a market exists after all, for active people who like to be outside, but don’t want to or can’t afford high end hearing enhancements. A hat with acoustic flaps built into the neck/ear cover section on my Harkila hat might work. Whatever, it makes me use my other senses much more and stops guides chatting on our way around - we save that for the walk/ drag back!
NHS hearing aids are FREE.
Also currently involved in the dilemma on whether to go NHS or private; currently have the Opticon "More 1's" on trial as family member works in a private business, will get discount if I go through him, but still a hell of a cost impact just to stop the missus from nagging me 
I have had NHS hearing aids for over 20 years, NHS, five different models so far, because of problems that have required multiple extensive ear surgery, not the usual age related or hearing damage reasons. Moderate in one ear, moderate to severe in the the other
Mild hearing loss: Hearing loss between 20 – 40dBHL (typically you might find that you have difficulty following speech in noisy situations).
Moderate hearing loss: Hearing loss between 41 – 70dBHL (you will probably find that you have difficulty following speech)
Severe hearing loss: Hearing loss between 71 – 95dBHL (you will have severe difficulty following speech without a hearing aid)
Nowadays even just mild hearing loss is considered reason to be given NHS aids. The first step is to discuss it with your GP who can then refer you. The target is to get you sorted within six weeks, though some trusts are better at this than others. I had my new set within three weeks.
My newest set are the latest Phonak Nathos Nova, which are superb, the bluetooth connectivity has been transformative, making phone calls, streaming audio from phone, laptop, tv, controlling and adjusting the aids using the app. on my phone etc. They can also be reprogrammed/adjusted remotely if necessary, instead of having to be done in person.
Each NHS trust decides which makes and models of aids to use, from those approved by the NHS. My trust now uses Phonak exclusively. Previously I had Siemens, which they can no longer support. Some trusts will also outsource some of the service to e.g. Specsavers and Boots, mine does also but I strongly recommend that you use their dedicated audiology services, particularly if your case is more than just simple age related problems. I do not know which make of aids such suppliers use.
Phonak have a dedicated service for the NHS, supplying aids to specific NHS requirements, of which the Phonak Nathos Nova are state of the art, introduced late last year. It sounds as if you may have a previous version, if you have been offered replacements with bluetooth they will be Novas.
Often they will start you off with the aid set to fully automatic mode, which works very well, the Auto-Sense OS switches between various settings as it detects changes. However up to three additional user selectable programs can be added. E.g. I have chosen "speech in loud noise", "speech in 360" (useful when otherwise the aids normally focus in on speech from in front and reject sounds from the rear), and enabled the telecoil setting which is very useful.
Phonak NHS - Hearing Aids, Assistive Devices and NHS Funding Information
They work very well in windy conditions, never a problem. Far better than my previous Siemens. I can crank them up to much higher than normal volume as well, and they cope with moderated rifle shooting very well too, acting instantly to limit to a safe level even when turned up to maximum. I do however have custom made earmoulds on mine. The more usual thin silicone inserts would not provide such attenuation.
I use my Peltor Sportacs on the range, but my new aids are I think sufficient for stalking, with a moderated rifle.
Batteries are supplied free for NHS aids. A pair last me two or three days, making much use of the bluetooth features. Four or five days if not.. If I had to pay for them I see that e.g. Tesco charge £6.50 per 8. With my usage that alone would cost about £240 per year for private hearing aids.
Also if you need hearing aids you are entitled to a disabled persons railcard. Which is a substantial saving, Are You Eligible - Disabled Persons Railcard 30% off rail fares and London Oyster card journeys.
My Phonaks would cost upwards of £2500 privately. And are every bit as good as the commercial versions, they use the Phonak Marvel platform, with Autosense-OS 3.0. Dust and waterproof to IP68 as well, safe to go out in the rain with them, which is a rare feature not found in some other makes.
That seems very casual to me. I treat my aids as carefully as if I had to pay for them myself. Just because the NHS will replace lost ones for a small price (I think my lot would charge £70 each) it doesn't excuse carelessness.
I think it entirely unnecessary nowadays to buy private hearing aids. Unless you particularly don't want behind the ear ones. BTE have all sorts of technical advantages in use. I even had a choice of colours, chose silver-grey.
Thank you' for that bundle of information, I was advised by the audiologist to stick' with the NEW ones at least for a fortnight, so your auto setting explanation might be the reasoning? The break down of decibels and loss of hearing puts me in your list as moderate/severe as both descriptions suite my situation and age now. My Phonak models are Nathos S+M. It may just be you are right in your assumption and therefor a great deal of help in advance for me.
That discounted rail ticket info is handy, as I bet "Not a lot of people know that" ?
BC.
That discounted rail ticket info is handy, as I bet "Not a lot of people know that" ?
BC.
Lots of good information from all of you, many thanks. Just to give some of my experience I started with some private ones which were rubbish, then went NHS and now have the Oticon ones. They are pretty good, I used to worry about losing them as I am mindful of the real cost, not just that they will give you another one for £50. I have mislaid them several times but never actually lost them. Closest I came was having left them on the back of the quad bike whilst angle grinding then going off to feed the deer, drove through 3 paddocks and realised what I had done when I got back. Fortunately I was able to follow the tracks left by the quad and found them both.
As for wind noise I just wear a fleecy hat. I also do that much of the time when handling deer in case they get knocked out by flying deer. Only had that happen once and happily the chap with me happened to see the one hit the ground and dived in under all the hooves to rescue it for me.
As for wind noise I just wear a fleecy hat. I also do that much of the time when handling deer in case they get knocked out by flying deer. Only had that happen once and happily the chap with me happened to see the one hit the ground and dived in under all the hooves to rescue it for me.
Just to add …. Some NHS areas do not require you to go via your GP and you can self refer directly to Specsavers.
www.specsavers.co.uk
NHS hearing aids are available | Specsavers UK
NHS Hearing available in your area.
When first fitted, it may be that the aids will be programmed to start off at a relatively low setting, then ramp up over a couple of weeks to the ideal level. They call this "auto acclimatisation" This is usually done for people not used to hearing aids, who suddenly discover that they are hearing much better, everything seems too loud, apparently some don't like it and take them out, then mess about only putting them in when they think they want them. This is no good, to benefit from aids can take your brain a while to appreciate them, you should persevere, put them in when you wake up, and take them out when you go to bed.
Otherwise you will never get the full benefit.
Looking at mine, with the app. since they were last adjusted on 14/02/22 my average wearing time per day has been 12 hours 41 minutes. My NHS people can see this as well, and realise if you just aren't trying/persevering.
When first fitted it will be done using an automatically calculated "first fit" based purely on your audiogram. Might be close, might not (mine was nowhere near). To properly tune them requires a real-ear test, where tiny microphones are inserted inside the ear, then the aids inserted, and tested in a proper soundproof room using a couple of calibrated loudspeakers. Very interesting, also put through phoneme testing, e.g. to distinguish between important aspects of speech, sibilants etc. and more, all done automatically. Every ear is different inside, the simple audiogram using headphones is just the start. My proper test was booked for one month after I got them and resulted in extensive re-tuning.
Prior to the ones with bluetooth, the Novas, the Nathos (National Health Operating System) automatic settings used autosense OS 2. Novas use V3, enabled by the Marvel platform., along with the bluetooth. Probably your previous NHS Phonaks were using V2. Pretty good, but V3 is much better. The very latest commercial Phonaks are up to V5 now, requiring at least the Paradise platform. This, or better will doubtless come to NHS aids in time, but for now they are the best you will get.
The NHS probably is the major procurer of hearing aids in the UK, they negotiate directly, and the equipment and training to properly support them is probably part of the package. It is competitive, other trusts may make different choices of preferred supplier, recognising that their staff cannot be expected to support every device available through NHS central procurement. My trust decided on Phonak, others may have decided differently.
Current commercial Phonaks use at least the Paradise platform, and autosense is up to V5 now. NHS procurement takes time, evaluation, retraining, etc. The Novas were released only a couple of months before I got mine, still very new to the personnel.
Hearing aids are usually rated as S, standard (mild loss), M, moderate loss, or P (power, severe loss). For profound loss its a different picture. I am on the borderline of needing M or P. Chose both M, accepting that my deafer ear might be better with P, but so far the M, cranked up fully are adequate, the M much more ideal for my better ear.
As it happens, back for a re-tune on Thursday, might be changed to Ps, which come only with rechargeable cells, swings and roundabouts, I prefer the disposables for all sorts of reasons, particularly since I don't pay for them.
Can/do Specsavers et. al provide this level of attention, maybe they could if they wanted to, but I betcha they don't.
Nathos Nova - Hearing Aid - Phonak NHS
Selective quotes: I have explored all of the features below, and been impressed.
I cannot speak of other makes and models, whether NHS or private or outsourced NHS. Only what I know.
AutoSense OS™ 3.0
Designed to improve hearing performance and deliver a seamless listening experience, this proprietary operating system is the result of years of continuous development.
UltraZoom
Directional microphone technology is a proven method of effectively improving speech intelligibility in background noise. UltraZoom is the adaptive multi-channel beamforming technology, automatically available in AutoSense OS or in a manual program
SoundRecover2
The next generation of SoundRecover further improves speech audibility and utilizes an adaptive frequency lowering algorithm. Sound quality of mid and low frequencies are maintained while high frequency sounds are made audible. This creates an optimal listening experience for more users than ever before.
User Preference Tuning
Remembers adjustments you make with FlexControl and FlexVolume and applies them automatically for a hearing aid more in tune with your preferences.
NoiseBlock
Noise Block Processing is particularly effective at reducing uncomfortable environmental noise. It recognises the subtle differences between speech and non-speech sounds, removing noise while maintaining audibility.
WindBlock
WindBlock utilises a wind identification and classification system. The powerful, adaptive algorithm automatically suppresses wind noise. It allows wearers to enjoy the outdoors without compromise
SoundRelax
SoundRelax instantly and accurately identifies impulse sounds and applies gain reduction relative to the original peak signal characteristics without altering Maximum Power Output (MPO). SoundRelax is designed to cushion unpleasant impulse sounds while maintaining speech clarity without causing unnatural perception of other sounds.
Auto Acclimatization
Auto Acclimatization is used to automatically increase the client’s amplification, while the client is using the device. The starting level, speed of the acclimatization and the target level can easily be adjusted.
Tinnitus Balance
The Tinnitus Balance noise generator generates a broadband sound for use in tinnitus management therapies, either in the context of masking or sound therapy such as Tinnitus Retraining Therapy. It offers fitting flexibility through the Phonak Target™ software.
Environmental balance
Environmental balance is a volume modification capability in Phonak hearing aids that allows clients to adjust the volume of the streamed signal versus the surrounding environmental sounds by the press of the volume control.
Sharpie,
Thank you for your 2x very informative posts. I have suffered from hearing loss for decades, due to huge amounts of pigeon shooting in the 80's and not wearing ear protection.
In 2018 I got assessed in Audiology in Bristol and came out with a pair of Phonak Nathos auto micro. They transformed my hearing. However I have not had any follow up appointments mainly due to covid. I have noticed my hearing has deterioated and have a check up next month. I will now go armed with far more information.
I also agree that the private hearing aid market is the wild west and there is huge mark ups on the devices. Phonak is owned by a Swiss company Sonova, share price is CHF 247 2019/20 revenue 3 billion CHF so lots of money being made out of us deaf people.
D
Thank you for your 2x very informative posts. I have suffered from hearing loss for decades, due to huge amounts of pigeon shooting in the 80's and not wearing ear protection.
In 2018 I got assessed in Audiology in Bristol and came out with a pair of Phonak Nathos auto micro. They transformed my hearing. However I have not had any follow up appointments mainly due to covid. I have noticed my hearing has deterioated and have a check up next month. I will now go armed with far more information.
I also agree that the private hearing aid market is the wild west and there is huge mark ups on the devices. Phonak is owned by a Swiss company Sonova, share price is CHF 247 2019/20 revenue 3 billion CHF so lots of money being made out of us deaf people.
D
aquarius11
Well-Known Member
Amazing amount of info, i keep getting nagged by the mrs to get my hearing checked but as many know resistance is futile, so i'm better prepared now.
Many thanks to all offering info,
A quality post!
Many thanks to all offering info,
A quality post!
If you are ex forces/blue light, amongst other organisations, you could do worse than try Hearing Star.
For The Good and The Brave
We work in partnership with organisations for the benefit of their members and charitable objects.
www.hearingstar.org.uk
Each NHS trust would operate in its own way, as decided by their Clinical Commissioning Group, I say would, because Clinical Commissioning Groups were abolished in July 2022 and replaced by Integrated Care Systems.
What are clinical commissioning groups?
Trusts are supposed to follow the NICE guidance, you can read the relevant ones here: I suggest you take a look, I'll try to extract some relevant points below.
Recommendations | Hearing loss in adults: assessment and management | Guidance | NICE
Hearing loss in adults: assessment and management
NICE guideline [NG98]Published: 21 June 2018
My trust seems pretty good at this, and well resourced, others maybe not so much, as with a lot of NHS things it can be a bit of a postcode lottery.
Offering hearing aids to adults
1.6.1Offer hearing aids to adults whose hearing loss affects their ability to communicate and hear, including awareness of warning sounds and the environment, and appreciation of music.
1.6.2Offer 2 hearing aids to adults with aidable hearing loss in both ears. Explain that wearing 2 hearing aids can help to make speech easier to understand when there is background noise, make it easier to tell where sounds are coming from, and improve sound quality.
1.6.5When prescribing and fitting hearing aids, explain the features on the hearing aid that can help the person to hear in background noise, such as directional microphone and noise reduction settings.
1.6.6Advise adults with hearing aids about choosing microphone and noise reduction settings that will meet their needs in different environments, and ensure that they know how to use them.
1.6.7Give adults with hearing aids information about getting used to hearing aids, cleaning and caring for their hearing aids, and troubleshooting.
1.6.5When prescribing and fitting hearing aids, explain the features on the hearing aid that can help the person to hear in background noise, such as directional microphone and noise reduction settings.
1.6.6Advise adults with hearing aids about choosing microphone and noise reduction settings that will meet their needs in different environments, and ensure that they know how to use them.
1.6.7Give adults with hearing aids information about getting used to hearing aids, cleaning and caring for their hearing aids, and troubleshooting.
1.7.1Offer adults with hearing aids a face-to-face follow‑up audiology appointment 6 to 12 weeks after the hearing aids are fitted, with the option to attend this appointment by telephone or electronic communication if the person prefers.
1.7.2At the follow‑up audiology appointment for adults with hearing aids:
ask the person if they have any concerns or questions
address any difficulties with inserting, removing or maintaining their hearing aids
provide information on communication, social care or rehabilitation support services if needed
tell the person how to contact audiology services in the future for aftercare, including repairs and adjustments to accommodate changes in their hearing
ensure that the person's hearing aids and other devices meet their needs by checking:
the comfort, sound quality and volume of hearing aids, including microphone and noise reduction settings, and fine-tuning them if needed
hearing aid cleaning, battery life and use with a telephone
use of assistive listening devices
hours the hearing aid has been used, if shown by automatic data logging
That I suppose is one way of looking at it, but the other way is that great technological progress has been made, in a competitive sector, R+D costs, so does the type of chip design, packaging, construction, distribution, training, equipment etc,
Yes it is big business, but competitive also, I'll list the major brands later.
Also all is not as it seems with the big high street players. Boots hearing aid centres (Actually David Ormerod Hearing centres) are actually majority owned by Sonova for example. Sonova own Phonak, as well as Unitron. A caution I found somewhere online:
Hearing aid manufacturer affiliations
Over the years, many retailers have built affiliations with certain manufacturers and in some cases are partially owned by them. This is a selection of retailers that have ties to manufacturers:
Boots Hearing Care: (David Ormerod Hearing Centres) – Majority owned by Sonova Holding (Phonak, Unitron).
Hidden Hearing: Owned by William Demant Holding (Bernafon, Oticon).
Bloom Hearing and Regional Hearing Services: Owned by Widex.
While this does not mean that you would necessarily receive substandard technology from these retailers, it does mean that you are likely to be offered a limited choice. As they are affiliated with certain manufacturers, there is a good chance that they will recommend the company’s products first. (If you went to buy a car at a Mercedes dealership they wouldn’t offer you a Ford!)
Another thing to watch for in these cases is that manufacturers will often use these retailers to clear their stocks of older technology by offering things like 2 for 1 deals. While this looks like a fantastic offer on the surface, you may not be getting the best technology available for what you are paying.
Specsavers is an interesting operation, all Specsavers are actually franchise operations. My big local one is very good, and I know the owner, who has invested heavily. However I just checked, and although they used to fit aids for the NHS, with GP referral, they have chosen not to do so anymore. A commercial decision, wasn't paying and was also affecting their private business. The nearest one that still does is about 30 miles away. As a franchise they only fit Specsavers brand stuff, e.g. their hearing aids are all proprietary models, sourced of course from the big manufacturers but tailored, and locked down to only be serviceable by them.
I took a punt with them last year for some new varifocal glasses when my independent optician retired. Excellent service, good value with various deals, prescribed their top end custom made lenses, but they were frank with me, my previous specs. were fitted with custom Essilor lenses (Nikon). Said their best ones were good, but not that good. Even said she had Zeiss, on a par with Essilor, but Specsavers best were not as good, I would probably notice. Asked why she wasn't wearing Specsavers herself. Ahh, yes I can have them for free, but I prefer to pay for my own, wanting the best. She was right, in fact it took them three goes to get my glasses into a usable state for me, the first, and the second set of lenses were made completely wrong. Got lucky third time, perfectly usable, a very good price, but next time I'll be looking for a good optician who is not tied in to only being able to supply lenses as dictated by their franchise.
William Demant Holding, Denmark.
Bernafon
Oticon
Sonova Holding, Switzerland.
Phonak
Unitron
GNReSound, Denmark.
Resound
Siemens, Germany.
Siemens, now Signia
Starkey, USA
Starkey
Widex, Denmark
Widex
FWIW, although Sonova is Swiss, their R+D, and much manufacturing, is also done in Denmark. Spot a pattern here ?
Great information @Sharpie , thanks for posting.
My Signia aids, supplied by Specsavers really do not do their job. Any sort of background noise seems to take priority over one to one speech. I tend not to get involved in group conversations as it's embarrassing when you miss-hear what's being said and have to keep saying "Pardon" or rely on my missus to clarify what was said.
If I understand your post it says that Specsavers will no longer be fitting aids for NHS patients, is this the case?
I have an appointment to have my ears cleaned by my GP practice nurse, I will then contact Specsavers to try and get an improvement on my present aids.
Foxyboy43
Well-Known Member
When looking at new aids check that they have selective settings for varying environments - e.g. crowded areas, quiet spaces, etc…. All too often you cannot hear the person speaking to you as they are drowned out by other conversations across the room. Mind you it can be useful/interesting……Great information @Sharpie , thanks for posting.
My Signia aids, supplied by Specsavers really do not do their job. Any sort of background noise seems to take priority over one to one speech. I tend not to get involved in group conversations as it's embarrassing when you miss-hear what's being said and have to keep saying "Pardon" or rely on my missus to clarify what was said.
If I understand your post it says that Specsavers will no longer be fitting aids for NHS patients, is this the case?
I have an appointment to have my ears cleaned by my GP practice nurse, I will then contact Specsavers to try and get an improvement on my present aids.
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