Home Defence

[chriswjx]

I was under the impression that you were legally allowed to use your firearms for self-defence "if" you felt that your life was at risk. Considering the robber that's survived is getting charged with "aggravated burglary" which is defined as burglary with "any firearm or imitation firearm, any weapon of offence, or any explosive", I am slightly curious as to why the farmer's been charged as well.

Granted, many details not in the current news, but makes me curious...

Whaley Bridge: Farmer held over burglary shooting death

The man is being detained on suspicion of murder following the shooting, the BBC understands.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Trigger260]

You have to wait for them to kill you, then you can kill them back

 

[Jelen]

It'll be interesting to see the outcome of this.

 

[kenbro]

You tell ‘em: He said he was going to kill me and I believed him.

 

[Swedish]

Its a very complex area of law. There are several cases where a legally held firearm has been used successfully for defence and its use has been upheld by the judge but... You can't for instance have the firearm at hand in readiness (ie leaning by the bed or back door) as that would indicate premeditation of its use as a defence weapon. Neither can you go chasing after the miscreants and shoot them when they're running away as this would be seen as a punitive act. You may use anything you see fit and feel is proportionate to the threat to you and yours. The defence is how you perceived the threat in the heat of the moment.

 

[Tom270]

I seem to remember in the Tony Martin case a lot was made of did he shout a warning.
I used to shoot at the top of Eccles Rd. Whaley Bridge in the 1970s.

 

[Bowland blades]

I was under the impression that you were legally allowed to use your firearms for self-defence "if" you felt that your life was at risk. Considering the robber that's survived is getting charged with "aggravated burglary" which is defined as burglary with "any firearm or imitation firearm, any weapon of offence, or any explosive", I am slightly curious as to why the farmer's been charged as well.

Granted, many details not in the current news, but makes me curious...

Whaley Bridge: Farmer held over burglary shooting death

The man is being detained on suspicion of murder following the shooting, the BBC understands.

www.bbc.co.uk

Firearms are correctly not permitted in a self defence plea and even if a case was allowed for the use of one its would need to be an aggressor who was attacking with the same weapon as self defence has to be proportional to the threat faced in English law .
Run and hide / take cover would be the better option

 

[Len the dog]

But the farmer hasn't been charged, he's still only being questioned.

 

[Len the dog]

I seem to remember in the Tony Martin case a lot was made of did he shout a warning.
I used to shoot at the top of Eccles Rd. Whaley Bridge in the 1970s.

Tony Martin's problem was that he shot them in the back as they were escaping.

 

[Rake Aboot]

Firearms are correctly not permitted in a self defence plea and even if a case was allowed for the use of one its would need to be an aggressor who was attacking with the same weapon as self defence has to be proportional to the threat faced in English law .
Run and hide / take cover would be the better option

Yup

That’s rubbish

 

[Stalker62]

Firearms are correctly not permitted in a self defence plea and even if a case was allowed for the use of one its would need to be an aggressor who was attacking with the same weapon as self defence has to be proportional to the threat faced in English law .
Run and hide / take cover would be the better option

Utter nonsense.

Where did you get your Law degree from?




"Reasonable in the circumstances".

"Reasonable" will (if it goes to Court) be a matter (ultimately) for the Jury.

 

[Len the dog]

The problem with using a firearm in self defence is that it is required to be kept locked away. Retrieving the keys, opening the cabinet, finding the ammo and loading it, would be deemed long enough to find another solution, whereas keeping your gun loaded beside the bedroom door is premeditation.

 

[splash]

what would have been the forums opinion ?

The bloke with the sword in London.
You witness the attack on people and the police from your window.


What would you do

 

[Len the dog]

what would have been the forums opinion ?

The bloke with the sword in London.
You witness the attack on people and the police from your window.


What would you do

Definitely don’t poke the deer rifle out of the window and take a shot.

 

[B&W FOX]

Be interesting to see the outcome of this

Tony Martin had his sentence reduced to manslaughter under diminished responsibility and served 3 years.

House holder in London stabbed a burglar to death and no charges we're brought.

It seems as long as you've killed them so they can't testify against you in court your in the clear.

This certainly wasn't a social visit by the burglars at 1.20 am.
They have been charged with aggravated burglary...
they we're carrying a firearm, imitation or other, knives weapons etc, so their decision making was slightly flawed to confront a home owner.

 

[Swedish]

Here is an example reported by the Guardian:

Two burglars shot by homeowner jailed for four years

Judge tells Joshua O'Gorman and Daniel Mansell their shotgun injuries were not mitigating factors in their sentencing

www.theguardian.com

 

[Ronin]

Definitely don’t poke the deer rifle out of the window and take a shot.

Honestly held belief someone’s life is in mortal danger ,,,,,


The terrorist on the bridge having killed - running towards a group of people with blooded hands and knifes in each - run over the terrorist - how would you stand with that one

 

[Swedish]

Tony Martin's problem was that he shot them in the back as they were escaping.

The fact that he didn't have a valid cert for his gun was also a rather big factor...

 

[nun_hunter]

Utter nonsense.

Where did you get your Law degree from?


View attachment 363253

"Reasonable in the circumstances".

"Reasonable" will (if it goes to Court) be a matter (ultimately) for the Jury.

As you have said "if it goes to court".

Self defence is by its nature a defence for someone committing what would otherwise be a crime. In serious cases, such as death or serious injury it will be for the jury to decide if what they did was a defence for their actions.

Similar to the Section 7 defence for killing deer out of season etc. it's not a permission or allowance because you have committed a crime, it's a defence that needs to be assessed to see if it was reasonable.

 

[Len the dog]

Honestly held belief someone’s life is in mortal danger ,,,,,


The terrorist on the bridge having killed - running towards a group of people with blooded hands and knifes in each - run over the terrorist - how would you stand with that one

I guess each case would have to be judged on its own merit, very quickly.
You would have to be very certain that the person you're taking aim at has done what you think he has. For example, that buffoon in America that recently shot and killed an Uber Eats delivery driver on the basis of an unsolicited phone call that he'd just received from persons unknown.