Home Defence
- Thread starter chriswjx
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nun_hunter
Well-Known Member
In the UK when looking at the use of force against someone else the question is "was the use of force reasonable in the circumstances" and by 'reasonable' that is taken to be the minimum to achieve what was necessary.
In your example it was deemed necessary and not excessive as no one was charged with anything from that incident.
There is a big difference between using lethal force against someone when you're sure your life or another's is at risk Vs shooting some scrote in the back as they're running off with your car keys.
Bo Diddley
Well-Known Member
Well said Len. It's not quite like the Wild West in the UK....
Get a Malinois
shakey jake
Well-Known Member
lets assume bowland is correct sndfirearms cant be used for self defence. how can police be armed and shoot people? that would be instant excessive force
shakey jake
Well-Known Member
id love one but im worried it would like the misses more than it liked me
The new pet cat may help , just training it to run infront of people's trailcams , should see a few threads soon pop up 
may also need some new furniture soon !
may also need some new furniture soon ! Act and intervene if you can do so without putting your own life at risk, use whatever ‘defensive’ object or weapon you can, but using a firearm, under any circumstances is a no go.. if you had to retreat to my gun room as a last resort after calling the police, and they still came at you then it will be for the jury to decide…
However, it’ll be never before you get a condition on your FAC for self defence
I hear calls for the UK police to be equipped with tasers and for them to be armed also… I hope not as it’ll turn into the USA, where police no longer want to wrestle with an unarmed perpetrator but shoot them instead
.Bowland is not correct, fire arms can be used for self defence if the use is reasonable justifiable and in proportion to the threat presented.
The police can not just shoot people, they in the vast majority of cases use reasonable , proportionate and justifiable force, each case is investigated wither it be a baton strike or a rifle round.
Every Police shooting is investigated. Thereafter if the force is deemed reasonable and proportionate a justified use of force. In the case of a death a justifiable homicide.
Stalker62
Well-Known Member
Forgive me, but you (and @Bowland blades) are utterly wrong.
Why do 'we' arm the Military, or arm the Police.
There is no "question mark" because the question was rhetorical.
It is because, given the 'appropriate' circumstances, the use of a firearm (insert any bloody thing you like) is acceptable.
Bo Diddley
Well-Known Member
Hah...Would it not be ok to shoot an intruder a bit..
LeftHandGuy
Well-Known Member
I hear calls for the UK police to be equipped with tasers and for them to be armed also… I hope not as it’ll turn into the USA, where police no longer want to wrestle with an unarmed perpetrator but shoot them instead
That's not really true, I train BJJ with several cops representing multiple layers of law enforcement (at least 4 different departments and agencies) and all of them attempt to use non-lethal means before escalating to lethal, bear in mind that the BJJ chokes we all learn are considered to be "lethal".
On the other hand, whilst I am immensely proud of that fact that in general UK policing is able to be conducted without the need to equip all police officers with firearms, and I would not want this to change, I believe that all police officers should receive firearms and marksmanship training and should be competent undertake armed duty. I realize that this may not be a popular view, but I think it would be a good thing for everyone (not least FAC and SGC holders).
The October 1946 date I'm quoting from Colin Greenwood's book 'Firearms Control', 1st Ed. 1972
Lloyd90
Well-Known Member
The Police have to arrest the farmer under the most serious charge for the event so he can be questioned under caution.
Anything he says about the case could be used in a court of law for prosecution as well as defence.
The less speculation the better.
I hope he has a good Lawyer and advice and listens carefully before making his statement.
Let me know if there’s a crowd fund for his bill.
Anything he says about the case could be used in a court of law for prosecution as well as defence.
The less speculation the better.
I hope he has a good Lawyer and advice and listens carefully before making his statement.
Let me know if there’s a crowd fund for his bill.
It is certainly very unlikely that you'd be granted an FAC for self-defence, other than in Northern Ireland.However, it’ll be never before you get a condition on your FAC for self defence
There are differing views as to the extent to which the additional 'discretionary conditions' on an FAC actually mean as far as restricting the lawful use of the firearms - but it seems unlikely to me that the lack of such a condition would make the otherwise-lawful use of a lawfully-held firearm unlawful. For example, I don't have 'humane dispatch' on my FAC - but I think if there was no better way of ending in a timely way the suffering of some poor creature than using one of my firearms, it would not be likely that I'd be found to have acted unlawfully in doing so.
Someone stated elsewhere that he had bought a farm elsewhere and wasn’t usually resident at his Derbyshire farm where the incident took place.
I’d imagine this might help him in any claim that the gun used wasn’t ordinarily sitting loaded by his bedside rather than in the cabinet.
People don’t think that using a dry powder extinguisher could cause a problem and would just make someone back off.
And that's where it gets murky. Said scrote has already broken in to your house. Whether they've burned the locks out or jimmied the window with a crow bar, they're still armed with a weapon.
If you happen to be down stairs whilst someone is getting in and they grab the keys and go, they're already running away so the level of force used is low, and that's purely to detail at that point and not defend. If they were coming towards you with said weapon, crack on and do whatever it takes to get the job done. Whether that be a fire extinguisher, a baseball bat/golf club that just so happens to be sat there or they're unfortunate enough to gain entry whilst your cleaning your 12g, it doesn't matter what's used and it will all be investigated the same once that level of injury/death is done. Yes, you will be arrested for murder to allow the investigation to proceed and be run over the tape under caution.
In answer to @Ronin - you already know it's fair game to mow them down at that point
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