Hornady ELD-X sections

[User00033]

Couple of threads on our NZ forum and elsewhere have reported problems with 7mm (.284") 162gr ELD-X. Less than ideal knock-down, with two specific reports of under-expansion and over penetration.

This kind of contradicted what others have been experiencing, like me with the 6.5mm (.264") 143gr and .308" 178gr, and a mate with the .308" 200gr ELD-X, amongst many others all over the world. The ELD-X has taken off big time in many hunting jurisdictions - I have mates using it here, in the US, Australia, South Africa, England and Canada.

Problem with our comparisons, is there are way too many variables to be truly objective. For starters, I'm trying to argue away 7mm problems based on my 6.5mm experience. Not the same bullet. Then of course we have animal weight, animal species, point of impact, angle of impact, which way the moon was facing and the position of the tide....

So its hard to compare experiences, objectively, I think you'll agree. I've written up my 143gr 6.5mm experiences before, around 300 goats and a dozen reds with it so far, with just the one failure which ultimately was down to poor point of impact. I've only shot two reds with the 178gr in the .308 Win, my Tikka doesn't like them a great deal but both of those animals were poleaxed with front lower shoulder shots at ~150m.

Here's a photo of sectioned bullets, the 200gr and 178gr in .30 cal, the 162gr in 7mm and the 143gr in 6.5mm. It's a prick of a thing to take a photo of, the shadows are a right pain. The photo is slightly off-centre due to shadow problems... not exactly a pro photographer, right?



I've gotten the sections as close to the mid-line as I can, so as not to overly skew the relative thickness of the jackets. Some observations:

(1) the 143gr 6.5mm has a thinner jacket on the ogive, relative to its overall size, compared to the others
(2) the 162gr 7mm has a thicker jacket on the ogive, relative to its overall size, compared to the others
(3) the 200gr .308" has a thicker jacket dimensions all round than the 178gr .308"

I've measured these as best I can with the calipers and the above is a pretty reasonable assessment I think.

I guess if you could reach any kind of conclusion from this amateur effort, taking into account all the variables that make every shot different to every other shot, you might say that the 7mm bullet looks a bit tougher for its weight than the rest.

What I can say is that the supposed "interlock ring" is scarcely visible. In fact, I think its bollox because I can't hardly see it at all on these sections and I'm inspecting them with the magnifying glass. I'm gonna take it up with Hornady, because I like that kind of thing.

I don't know what the circumstances were with these 7mm problems, and why specifically the shooter felt the bullets under-performed. Without inspecting the gralloch in person, or having a properly detailed video, its impossible to say. My gut feel is that usually on our relatively soft deer the shot placement is 90% of the equation. You fellas already know that hunting bullets of most design, construction, weight, from .224 to .500 will drop deer quickly if they're put into the front part of the engine room, in line with the foreleg and not behind it. But put them even directly in the heart, or above it, or just above and behind the heart in the rear lungs, the outcome is a bit of lottery. Angles are of course super important. Next post will discuss a couple of examples.

 

[scotch_egg]

How did you do the cross section? I would like to compare to a 6.5 140g ELD-M.

There certainly doesn’t look to be a lock ring to me. I await the reply from Hornady.

 

[Tom D]

or a 162 7mm amax..

 

[Mossypaw]

Looks like the 178gr in the photo has a cavity around the base of the tip ???

 

[rhhudson]

Looks like the 178gr in the photo has a cavity around the base of the tip ???

They should all have cavitys behind the tip, that is what initiates expansion, They need digging out as when you file them they fill over with lead,

And also the section needs polishing up with some energy cloth to see a better section.
I have done a few bullets this way with good results.

 

[trucraft]

Nice job.
Big difference in thickness.
In my very limited experience of the 143grn, I find them very fragile but affective. I like this kind of bullet. I think they act very similar to the Amax. Leave a good blood trail!

 

[User00033]

So following on from the sections, and complaints about poor performance in 7mm, its worth having a think about some of the other factors that affect the end result.

Here's a photo of a nice red stag shot at 50 yards with a 165gr SST from a .308 Win. The terminal velocity would have been around 2600fps. The bullet exited, in two pieces, one of which may or may not have been rib bone. The SST is very similar in construction to the ELD-X.

(reproduced with kind permission of the hunter)





This point of impact isn't - at first glance - particularly problematic, eh? Some might say that's hit squarely in the "shoulder area". Quick kill? Nope. This animal took off like greased lightening and made a solid couple of hundred metres - well out of sight of the hunter... it took some finding. He was crapping himself that he'd lost it.

Now, frequently on hunting forums, this kind of outcome would be blamed on the bullet. The SST has got a reputation of being too fragile for close bush stalking, and that's certainly the response that this incident provoked.

But look a little more carefully. The point of impact isn't in the shoulder area, its well behind the shoulder. And its too high, not by a lot, but by enough to miss the primary fast-killing infrastructure.



This point of impact is almost identical to a second reported "failure" this past Roar season, where a heavy red stag was hit with a 225gr Sierra GameKing from a .358 Win from 150m. The hunter was distraught that the animal took off and required finishing off when it was finally found. Cue post about how poor the Sierra bullet is. Turns out, after some further investigation, that the bullet's trajectory was about -30°, i.e. steeply down. Consequently, with the bullet hitting amidships, it exited through the low ribs / upper brisket. Not surprisingly only one lung was properly hit, but not major arteries, CNS or the heart.

So maybe next time you're reading about bullet failures, consider the above, and whether the bullet was given the chance to do its best work.

Overall I've been very happy with the 6.5mm ELD-X and hope to expand my line-up with the 6mm soon.

 

[ejg]

That shot placement looks like in the book and normally one would expect ~50yds run especially with the 165 SST.
In some cases I prefer to shoot them just under the spine, especially a side on animal at longer range when the wind estimation could have more tolerance. This Stag was taken at 300m slightly down hill. He spun round and dropped. 168 a-max (was not shot in the UK). I have learnt my lessons on steep downhill shots also.
I only shot a handful deer with the 165 SST from a 308 but thought the A-Max was a bit more predictable and better accuracy.

edi

 

[User00033]

Which book @ejg?

 

[ejg]

The HCAP as it is called in Ireland, recon the same as DSC1 in the UK. They outline on a deer picture where a hunter should place the bullet. Live sized targets are set up at 40-60 & 100yds to do you hunter competency test. Got to hit the zone or else you fail.
edi

ps. only a pic of a section.

 

[User00033]

Ah ha! Yes well therein lies the problem. Will be interesting to compare the various "official" views on where to put the bullet.

 

[ejg]

Remember, especially in Germany "Nachsuche" / tracking of wounded animals is a very established hobby in itself. Some might be disappointed if the deer just falls over as "Waldi" might not have anything to do then.

edi