How many stalks to achieve three completed ICR's for the DSC2?

[Klenchblaize]

Stalk 5: 6 deer spotted but no opportunity for a safe shot. 1 fox shot. With AW 'A'

Assuming Charlie comprised your pre-stalk target species statement does that stand as a successfully executed stalk albeit sans the post shot Best Practice carcass handling bit??

“Every little helps”!

Cheers

K

 

[6.5/284matt]

Reading some of these threads think I've not done too bad. Registered and spent over 2 years trying to find a good deal, price etc. almost gave up then was put on to a top bloke AW reasonable costs etc
Stalk 1) 4 suitable animals spotted but no way of getting a shot at any
Stalk 2) almost at end of stalk spotted, stalked, dealt with cull animal ICR1 done
Stalk 3) 2 x cull animals stalked and dealt with very quickly. AW would only sign one off as he said he wanted me to find someone else to do my third. Fair enough ICR2 done
Out for a walk on my syndicate intention to do some work on high seats etc. lease holder decided to have a walk around with me quick chat - take rifle out for an hour as he could act as CW. 20 minutes later ICR3 done
Paperwork sent off - now awaiting
"THE CALL"
Wingy

Hope yours gets sorted quicker than mine. I'm now on week 10 and still heared nothing. It would be nice to hear how long some of the other guys on here waited for theirs back.

Matt.

 

[rigboot]

Hope yours gets sorted quicker than mine. I'm now on week 10 and still heared nothing. It would be nice to hear how long some of the other guys on here waited for theirs back.

Matt.

Who are you using for your assessment centre Matt?

I'm using BASC, sent in my completed portfolio 2 weeks ago, received a letter of receipt last week and advised its now been sent to the portfolio assessor.

Decent comms so far so can't complain.

Have you chased anything up with your assessment centre yet?

 

[JC275]

Reading some of these threads think I've not done too bad. Registered and spent over 2 years trying to find a good deal, price etc. almost gave up then was put on to a top bloke AW reasonable costs etc
Stalk 1) 4 suitable animals spotted but no way of getting a shot at any
Stalk 2) almost at end of stalk spotted, stalked, dealt with cull animal ICR1 done
Stalk 3) 2 x cull animals stalked and dealt with very quickly. AW would only sign one off as he said he wanted me to find someone else to do my third. Fair enough ICR2 done
Out for a walk on my syndicate intention to do some work on high seats etc. lease holder decided to have a walk around with me quick chat - take rifle out for an hour as he could act as CW. 20 minutes later ICR3 done
Paperwork sent off - now awaiting
"THE CALL"
Wingy

How long did your portfolio have left to run? We must be very close to the end of the 'Credible Witness' era now, I haven't seen any portfolios with CW evidence on for ages.
JC

 

[6.5/284matt]

Who are you using for your assessment centre Matt?

I'm using BASC, sent in my completed portfolio 2 weeks ago, received a letter of receipt last week and advised its now been sent to the portfolio assessor.

Decent comms so far so can't complain.

Have you chased anything up with your assessment centre yet?

Im also using BASC. They'v been fine. It's the assessor that's dragging his feet. Iv been in contact with basc several times as the assessor won't answer his phone or return any voice messsges, they keep telling me that he's busy with other stuff, if that's the case then he shouldn't be accepting portfolios.

 

[rigboot]

Im also using BASC. They'v been fine. It's the assessor that's dragging his feet. Iv been in contact with basc several times as the assessor won't answer his phone or return any voice messsges, they keep telling me that he's busy with other stuff, if that's the case then he shouldn't be accepting portfolios.

Sounds like a bit of a nightmare Matt, being busy is one thing but some courtesy wouldn't go amiss to return your call and explain the situation.
Hope you get it cleared up soon

 

[davidm]

I used basc just before Xmas there sent my portfolio in and from sending back to basc till certificate it was 9 weeks but I know there was a health problems with both the lady at basc and the DMQ who deal with portfolios. As I was approved as passed on the 8 jan but didn't receive certificate till 25th jan.

 

[Erik Hamburger]

Assuming Charlie comprised your pre-stalk target species statement does that stand as a successfully executed stalk albeit sans the post shot Best Practice carcass handling bit??

“Every little helps”!

Cheers

K

I think a stalk only counts as a DSC2 stalk for an ICR if the candidate spots the deer himself (deer...not fox, rabbit, sheep or horse!) ; stalks into it (so not from a high seat), identifies the species and sex, decided if it is a suitable cull animal or not, confirms it would be a safe shot, and has the animal in the cross hairs for a humane shot preferable heart/lung as that is BDS 'Best Practice'.

 

[Klenchblaize]

I think a stalk only counts as a DSC2 stalk for an ICR if the candidate spots the deer himself (deer...not fox, rabbit, sheep or horse!) ; stalks into it (so not from a high seat), identifies the species and sex, decided if it is a suitable cull animal or not, confirms it would be a safe shot, and has the animal in the cross hairs for a humane shot preferable heart/lung as that is BDS 'Best Practice'.

Clearly for the most part a tongue-in-cheek observation but assuming the emboldened criteria were met you’d like to think something positive went in the score book!

 

[Wingy]

How long did your portfolio have left to run? We must be very close to the end of the 'Credible Witness' era now, I haven't seen any portfolios with CW evidence on for ages.
JC

The three years are up in April this year. I sat on it for 2 years before getting my arse into gear. Checked with BASC & BDS before submitting it they said a CW was still ok under the system I registered with (BDS) they sent receipt letter within 4 days of me posting it stating should be sorted in about 8 weeks
Wingy

 

[The deer man]

Best I've witnessed was all 3 stalks in one morning - and I shot another deer myself! It's a bit of a lottery really, and so it should be as that is deer stalking!
I hate the fact that some deer parks guarantee DSC 2 as it can give element 1 (stalk deer) no credibility. They are not all like that thankfully.
Not all AW's charge fees either! If you have your own ground, I don't charge, other than any expenses I might incur such as fuel to get to you.
Shop around!
MS

A bit of a lottery! The whole DSC 2 has become a money spinning con by the Associations and some AW's (I'm not directing this at you Monkey Spanker!). You say some deer parks guarantee DSC 2 - you do the course are taken out and from zero to hero with just three kills is a joke! All in a week?!

I have seen this in the marine industry. There was a time when to get a Yacht Masters Certificate it could take years of experience or certainly a couple of seasons work. Then came the 'fast track' from novice to Yacht Master in not much more than a week! The result was a good certificate totally belittled and a further certificate then required, the Class 4 which did require real time at sea, to give the mariner some credence.

The DSC 1 & 2 seems to going down the same road, what will it be next a DSC Masters?! There have already been murmurings that in order to be granted a Firearms Certificate DSC 2 would be required. I'm sure some firearms licencing departments would just jump at the chance to refuse a certificate unless the applicant had jumped through all three hoops, 1, 2 and Masters.

Why we always have to make life so difficult for ourselves in this country is beyond me. Oh, my mistake I nearly forgot, red tape to create money grabbing scams.

I hate to admit it but the answer would be to take a lesson from our European neighbors. As in Germany and France a fully defined and comprehensive course and exam which negates the opportunistic vagaries of our current system.

I started stalking 32 years ago the old way by shadowing another stalker and learning through that practical experience before I ever got a chance to take my first shot but I do appreciate that this is not practical for most people any longer. It's only in recent years (8 years ago) due to our ever increasing paper society that I did my DSC 1, because I had to. I don't regret it, it was a good course, met a lot of like minded people who I now stalk with but the course left me half full or half empty. It was incomplete and to go the whole way which I feel the course should have done in the first place I would now need to go down this money drain to just get signed off for level 2!

Unless forced by bureaucracy I have no intention of doing my Level 2 especially as we don't need it to go stalking and there are many stalkers out there who feel the same and who do it professionally as I do.

So to the future, one course consisting of theory and practical examination leading to one certificate. The Deer Stalking Certificate or The Hunting Certificate, call it what you will?

 

[Nulli Secundus]

A bit of a lottery! The whole DSC 2 has become a money spinning con by the Associations and some AW's (I'm not directing this at you Monkey Spanker!). You say some deer parks guarantee DSC 2 - you do the course are taken out and from zero to hero with just three kills is a joke! All in a week?!

I have seen this in the marine industry. There was a time when to get a Yacht Masters Certificate it could take years of experience or certainly a couple of seasons work. Then came the 'fast track' from novice to Yacht Master in not much more than a week! The result was a good certificate totally belittled and a further certificate then required, the Class 4 which did require real time at sea, to give the mariner some credence.

The DSC 1 & 2 seems to going down the same road, what will it be next a DSC Masters?! There have already been murmurings that in order to be granted a Firearms Certificate DSC 2 would be required. I'm sure some firearms licencing departments would just jump at the chance to refuse a certificate unless the applicant had jumped through all three hoops, 1, 2 and Masters.

Why we always have to make life so difficult for ourselves in this country is beyond me. Oh, my mistake I nearly forgot, red tape to create money grabbing scams.

I hate to admit it but the answer would be to take a lesson from our European neighbors. As in Germany and France a fully defined and comprehensive course and exam which negates the opportunistic vagaries of our current system.

I started stalking 32 years ago the old way by shadowing another stalker and learning through that practical experience before I ever got a chance to take my first shot but I do appreciate that this is not practical for most people any longer. It's only in recent years (8 years ago) due to our ever increasing paper society that I did my DSC 1, because I had to. I don't regret it, it was a good course, met a lot of like minded people who I now stalk with but the course left me half full or half empty. It was incomplete and to go the whole way which I feel the course should have done in the first place I would now need to go down this money drain to just get signed off for level 2!

Unless forced by bureaucracy I have no intention of doing my Level 2 especially as we don't need it to go stalking and there are many stalkers out there who feel the same and who do it professionally as I do.

So to the future, one course consisting of theory and practical examination leading to one certificate. The Deer Stalking Certificate or The Hunting Certificate, call it what you will?

I agree with this comment wholeheartedly. I did my DSC 1 back in 2002 and I have only recently got my portfolio through for level 2 just because I want to lease some land now. The theory learned on my DSC 1 was excellent but the shooting test still has my blood boiling today.

Myself and a lady were the only two candidates borrowing rifles. We went on the range and when I asked to zero the rifle was told it was already zeroed! I replied "it's not zeroed for me though," to which I was told abruptly "you'll have to do it another time then or just go with it now its up to you." The lady shooting the same rifle as me unzeroed, failed that day and I felt really sorry for her. Luckily I had a lot of shooting experience (ex army) and I saw where my first shots had landed and aimed off accordingly. The rifle was miles out and I only got through by the skin of my teeth.

I thought back then that a more thorough course that encompassed everything needed to stalk competently would have been more preferable both as a student and for consistency. Having said all of that what we have currently is better than nothing.

 

[finnbear270]

You had perfect reason to complain directly to your registering organisation.

 

[The deer man]

You had perfect reason to complain directly to your registering organisation.

And that would have taken them both time and money and still a re-sit for the lady in question when it should have been a comprehensively correct course and exam in the first place.

I do agree with Nulli Secundus that the DSC course is better than nothing but that is no excuse for doing nothing to improve this course, exam and qualification.

 

[Nulli Secundus]

You had perfect reason to complain directly to your registering organisation.

I agree that we did but at the time I thought ah well I passed so no harm done but I was fuming at the time and didn't want to come across all gobby and arrogant as I was their to learn from them. I'm not sure what the lady did as she was over from Ireland so to re-take would have been expensive. Her and husband were on the course as they owned a farm in Galway and had a load of Sika on their land, the husband wanted to take stalkers out as extra revenue so they both figured they would get some training in. The Deer Man pretty much nailed how we felt at the time. I felt then and now that the course could be better run more comprehensive and also better policed. I felt the instructors used the course more to tap up candidates for more stalking and also to sell kit to candidates.

 

[finnbear270]

This is why things get away from the original remit,... no one complains for fear of rocking the boat, if the boat trip is worth the fare....... make sure you get the full trip. A good example would be the H.O. guidance, & how we have so many differing versions!

 

[sikamalc]

Following on from this thread what do the members think about the site putting up a list of Approved Witnesses on the site, who are members, with species available, location and whether they charge for signing off.

Let me have your thoughts and Admin will consider putting a list up you can refer to.

 

[The deer man]

Following on from this thread what do the members think about the site putting up a list of Approved Witnesses on the site, who are members, with species available, location and whether they charge for signing off.

Let me have your thoughts and Admin will consider putting a list up you can refer to.

A good idea as long as it gives national coverage and those AW's are prepared to do what is required by the examination board and the candidate.

Although the Associations give a list of AW's my experience when I contacted them (AW's), albeit seven years ago, none were prepared to come out! Then one that did agree, for a fee, never showed up - wasted £100 on registration because I couldn't get an AW.

And this is where the system falls down because the DSC course and exam is farmed out for the final exam on an unprofessional basis at which point the 'Exam board' have lost control of consistency, quality and commitment to the candidate. I cannot think of any other national exam board that farms the final exam out to 'Joe public' and has the cheek to charge £120 registration fee for doing nothing! Apologies, they send you some sheets of bound paper which in fact could be downloaded by the candidate off a website instead.

The entire qualification should be run directly by the course / examining board (BDS/BASC or whatever other bodies are appointed) who select an appropriate AW for the candidate and that AW must comply with his/her obligation or lose their AW status. Unfortunately I already see problems with this.

The reality is, although a helpful idea Sikamalc, this entire DSC qualification needs to be re-organised on a professional basis and on a framework I believe I have.

 

[Paul 600]

A good idea as long as it gives national coverage and those AW's are prepared to do what is required by the examination board and the candidate.

Although the Associations give a list of AW's my experience when I contacted them (AW's), albeit seven years ago, none were prepared to come out! Then one that did agree, for a fee, never showed up - wasted £100 on registration because I couldn't get an AW.

And this is where the system falls down because the DSC course and exam is farmed out for the final exam on an unprofessional basis at which point the 'Exam board' have lost control of consistency, quality and commitment to the candidate. I cannot think of any other national exam board that farms the final exam out to 'Joe public' and has the cheek to charge £120 registration fee for doing nothing! Apologies, they send you some sheets of bound paper which in fact could be downloaded by the candidate off a website instead.

The entire qualification should be run directly by the course / examining board (BDS/BASC or whatever other bodies are appointed) who select an appropriate AW for the candidate and that AW must comply with his/her obligation or lose their AW status. Unfortunately I already see problems with this.

The reality is, although a helpful idea Sikamalc, this entire DSC qualification needs to be re-organised on a professional basis and on a framework I believe I have.

Have you now got your level 2? Im not far from you and would happily come to yours, Fuel and expenses only!

 

[Nulli Secundus]

Following on from this thread what do the members think about the site putting up a list of Approved Witnesses on the site, who are members, with species available, location and whether they charge for signing off.

Let me have your thoughts and Admin will consider putting a list up you can refer to.

I think that would be a brilliant idea.