How safe is a "safety"

[Cottis]

shooting say muntjac in most dense woodland and narrow rides without a chambered round ready (safety on) , i doubt you would get a shot with an empty chamber , unless you found a very dumb one, drawing a bead on them is hard enough as it is .

Indeed. This is one of the few times I carry a rifle with a round chambered. I shot two Sunday morning in the exact same environment you describe. There is no way that either would have hung around had I moved even slightly, let alone rattled a cartridge in to the chamber. One was about 20yds, the other around 50yds. Barely any wind, deadly silent all morning. You could hear a mouse fart.

Same as foxing at night. Soon as the thermal is on and NV focus adjusted and quickly tested on the sticks, a round is then chambered with the safety on.

Where I do dislike having a round up the spout is when moving around with other people or when I am shooting stuff more remotely like medium range pest control. If I can avoid having a rifle ready to fire, I will. Sometimes it just isn't practical though.

 

[kripton]

Or a Merkel

Or a Heym 30 (straight pull)

 

[Namman]

A few years back something happened that still makes my blood run cold.
All safeties are lethal on shotguns particularly non auto safeties.
A lady pushed her gun into the slip and it went off, frightened she dropped the gun.
It went off again and the charge hit another lady's knee from a couple of yards, which resulted in leg amputation. This lady is a friend and unfortunately still suffers with "Phantom pain".
With my rifles 3 in 3 out magazine when stalking and as nothing here is likely to kill me (so far) I shove one quietly in when ready to shoot. With shotgun always open on multi gun days until about to shoot.

That's not an accidental discharge that's negligence.

 

[NewForester]

If you're in the habit of walking with one up the spout try doing an unloaded drop test on your rifle and see how you get on.

I bought a Mauser off Holts and I took it my local gunsmith (Geoff Wiltshire) to look it over. The first thing he did was check it was safe, cycle the bolt, put the safety on and bang the heel of the rifle hard of the ground several times. When I asked him what the heck he was doing, he said that you wouldn't believe the number of rifles what would go off with the safety on if you did this. (Fortunately, this Mauser's safety did not give way.).

 

[Tazz]

Buy yourself a Blaser.....................................

Or better, a Sauer, proper bolt and better fail safe safety catch mechanism

 

[Foxyboy43]

IMHO just another reason to buy a Steyr Mannlicher…..
For added “firing pin safety“ the bolt handle can be moved closer to the stock in lock position and thus will be in optimal transport position. In this position, bolt handle and firing pin will be locked. If the bolt handle is in “Firing pin safety“ position, it will be automatically moved into firing position when activating the loading position (“Released“).
Also putting the rotary safety on automatically cancels the Set Trigger. Just saying like…

 

[alberta boy]

I bought a Mauser off Holts and I took it my local gunsmith (Geoff Wiltshire) to look it over. The first thing he did was check it was safe, cycle the bolt, put the safety on and bang the heel of the rifle hard of the ground several times. When I asked him what the heck he was doing, he said that you wouldn't believe the number of rifles what would go off with the safety on if you did this. (Fortunately, this Mauser's safety did not give way.).

I do this on every rifle I buy . You'd be surprised how many rifles fail the test .

AB

 

[Foxyboy43]

I do this on every rifle I buy . You'd be surprised how many rifles fail the test .

AB

Agreed - sound practice but dare I suggest that the scope is removed beforehand?

 

[alberta boy]

Agreed - sound practice but dare I suggest that the scope is removed beforehand?

Not necessarily , recoil from firing a round will generate far more force than banging it on the ground . If the scope fails after a bump test , it would've failed as soon as you fired it .

AB

 

[Ratel]

That's not an accidental discharge that's negligence.

Tell me the difference, the results the same ND or AD.

 

[Namman]

Tell me the difference, the results the same ND or AD.

I don't think pushing a loaded firearm into a slip and then having it go off is an accident .Do you?

 

[Stalker62]

Tell me the difference, the results the same ND or AD.

I think it is about creating an environment whereby 'accidents' do not happen.

Perhaps putting the onus on the user?

We changed to 'ND' years ago at work - right about the same time we changed RTA (Road Traffic Accident) to RTC (Road Traffic Collision...

 

[HonestJohn]

Tell me the difference, the results the same ND or AD.

maybe she was accidentally being negligent..

 

[Taff]

Had a customer complain about the safety on a sauer, after he shot a hole through the rear door of his ranger, while emptying the rifle by cycling the bolt when it was lying on the rear seat.

 

[HonestJohn]

Had a customer complain about the safety on a sauer, after he shot a hole through the rear door of his ranger, while emptying the rifle by cycling the bolt when it was lying on the rear seat.

F**king idiot in the first place doing that tbh.

 

[Taff]

He was adamant it was the guns fault and even contacted the supplier and manufacturer.

 

[Ratel]

I don't think pushing a loaded firearm into a slip and then having it go off is an accident .Do you?

This is all semantics and a little picky, the end result whether faulty safety, negligent or accidental causes the same damage. Here's another, two Keepers in land rover guns on rack behind seat. Underkeeper driver gets out, HK says get my gun out as well.
The UK does this blowing the other chaps head to bits, the HK had put his gun in loaded. The safety was either faulty or had been pushed off.
This happened in Warwks in the mid 70's.

 

[Bowland blades]

Tell me the difference, the results the same ND or AD.

ND is not checking the mag and chamber clear before entering a car or climbing a fence / wall for example . Accidental is a mechanical fault, mis understanding if the safety went forwards or back to go on safe ( CZ forward to safe , Sako forward to fire). Honestly though the decision is made by others looking at events after the fact .
Some are grey areas though and that is why we have investigations and courts .
I have some knowledge of just two serious mistakes one on a range that lead to a persons life ending and another on the hill that quite amazingly did not just very serious life long injury . Never forget it not only can happen but does happen !
I have had two accidents in my teens , leading only to one minor injury to my thumb ( a faulty safety on a new gun ) I now check for function frequently . The other closing a hammer gun with the hammer back ( big hole in the ground ) , when someone closes a gun inappropriately near me they get told ! it was of course my error but the fact remains guns can loose sear engagement on closing - point the dangerous end at the ground while closing !

 

[Alantoo]

point the dangerous end at the ground while closing !

I am amazed at the number of "experienced guns" who swing the barrels up to the stock, and not the the stock up to the barrels.

 

[baguio]

There has been a lot of discussion and differing views on this thread, but fundamentally I think the consensus is.

Don’t rely on the safety

And only chamber a round when you think a shot is imminent

And when it is chambered you need to have full control of where the muzzle is pointing

And when a shot is no longer imminent take the round out of the chamber - it takes but a few seconds to open the bolt and press the cartridge back into the magazine - keep the bolt open whilst crossing the ditch etc

And if you do not need to rechamber a round, close the bolt on an empty chamber, point rifle into a safe backstop and dry fire. If there was a round lurking at least it gone into a safe place.

Don’t just ease the spring. The most dangerous way to carry a rifle is with a chambered round with eased firing in contact with the primer.

Imminent will have different meaning depending upon the situation.

Fundamentally you are anticipating having to raise the rifle and shoot, without having the opportunity to load a round.

This may be as you get into final position to take a hind on the hill, as you enter some ground where there may well be a buck or at the start of trip into territory or situation where your life depends on you being be able to shoot quickly and accurately.

I use the word chambered quite deliberately as of course:

• All guns are always loaded.
• a gun should never be pointed at anything you don’t wish to destroy.

That might be the consensus amongst the average person on here but it certainly isn't the case amongst people who shoot any amount of deer. However, that goes without saying if you're carry empty as you have no chance of a quick shot at a bumped animal that pauses for a split second.
As has been said before, it's no wonder that the deer population is so high.