How safe is a "safety"

[Zulu999]

I grew up in Africa and was taught never to carry a gun with a round in the chamber, with a reliance on the safety. If walking up dangerous game, then one in the chamber and safetly off... Too many mishaps trying to fiddle with safety before getting a round off. I have indeed witnessed a few failures of the "safety" that resulted in a ND over the years..

It's a habit I have found hard to break. I can't see a reason to carry a gun "hot" when there is no danger of imminent death ahead.
On the last 2 stalks I have been on, I have been asked to load and chamber a round before setting off. I explained that I was not comfortable doing so.

So how safe is a safety and should it be relied upon to provide adequate security? Is it really that necessary to have a round chambered ready to shoot a deer that doesn't present any real danger to the shooter?

 

[scotch_egg]

When I’m 20 yards from a fallow that’s popped out from nowhere in the woods cycling the action would cause the deer to Foxtrot Oscar before I could even utter an expletive.

Most safety’s are just trigger blocks so muzzle awareness has to be on point at all times. Safety always falls down to the shooter.

 

[enfieldspares]

Some safeties block the trigger as on many side by side shotguns. Some block the firing pin such as the original Mauser 98 flag. Most are there to stop the gun firing by an accidental pulling of the trigger causing the weapon to fire.

 

[Namman]

When I’m 20 yards from a fallow that’s popped out from nowhere in the woods cycling the action would cause the deer to Foxtrot Oscar before I could even utter an expletive.

Most safety’s are just trigger blocks so muzzle awareness has to be on point at all times. Safety always falls down to the shooter.

Muzzle awareness is always the most important.
Most woodland stalking requires a round in the chamber hence the debates about how to carry a rifle safely.
Don't copy the gun handling you see on the documentaries on TV!!

 

[Turkish]

Buy yourself a Blaser.....................................

 

[Heym SR20]

I personally am also trained in the African or American way. A gun should only be hot when a shot is imminent.

I really do not like the practice of carry a rifle with round in chamber on the shoulder. I have had a safety move off and then trigger must have got snagged and rifle went off into the air. God only knows where the bullet came. Thank heavens I was in a remote area.

With most rifles there is quite considerable force behind the firing pin. There needs to be to stricke the primer. The sear holds the firing pin back and there is an area about 5mm wide by 0.5mm of contact between the sear and the notch on the firing pin.

The sear is held in place by the trigger blade with againnan equally small contact area. And spring pressure keeps the trigger blade in place.

And yet only 2 to 3lbs of pressure releases the trigger.

A decent blow on the back of the firing pin could easily trip sear etc and the whole lot goes off.

The safety is one of three types

1) firing pin blocking - the original Mauser flag safety, Win Mod 70 and the Brno/CZ 22rf all have these. The safety physically locks into a notch in the firing pin to stop it falling. But pin is still under spring pressure.

2) trigger blocking safeties. Most side safeties are of this type. They don’t block the firing pin. Instead they simply stop the trigger from moving and/or stop the seat from falling out of engagement with the notch on the firing pin.

Most shotgun safeties also only block the trigger blades. Most sidelocks do have an intercepting sear which only allows the hammers to fall if the trigger is pulled.
3) the decocker - not really a safety per se. A slide or lever is pushed / or pulled back. There is no tension on the firing pin until the action is cocked. Blasers etc are of this type.

Most safeties work well until they don’t. Poor adjustment can very easily make them unsafe. Even just a bit of gunk, grass seed etc can take them out of safe.

And if there is any pressure on the trigger blade when a gun is taken off safe, it will fire.

So in summary I don’t trust safeties. They have their place, but fundamentally they are a mechanical device and are no substitute for good gun handling. As a result I don’t trust putting a round in the breach then putting a rifle on my shoulder and trusting a small mechanical device that is quite easily moved to fire.

 

[Norfolk Deer Search]

I grew up in Africa and was taught never to carry a gun with a round in the chamber, with a reliance on the safety. If walking up dangerous game, then one in the chamber and safetly off... Too many mishaps trying to fiddle with safety before getting a round off. I have indeed witnessed a few failures of the "safety" that resulted in a ND over the years..

It's a habit I have found hard to break. I can't see a reason to carry a gun "hot" when there is no danger of imminent death ahead.
On the last 2 stalks I have been on, I have been asked to load and chamber a round before setting off. I explained that I was not comfortable doing so.

So how safe is a safety and should it be relied upon to provide adequate security? Is it really that necessary to have a round chambered ready to shoot a deer that doesn't present any real danger to the shooter?

Of you have a ruger m77 the 3 stage safety is bomb proof!

I have stalked with 1 up the spout since i have owned a ruger and thats coming up for 13 years next year!

I trust it implicitly.

 

[Donkey Basher]

You can add Tikka M595 to the list of firing pin blocking safeties

 

[sh1kar]

The 3 PHs and all 4 of us whilst in Moz have the same rule. Loaded at all times
You never know. Especially in riverine jesse
Who knows what you are walking into
But muzzle awareness big time as always
S

 

[sh1kar]

And when do regain the truck we all check all clear on each others rifles

 

[Steff]

Since I bought my first Blaser 25 years ago this is a non-issue for me.

 

[User00036]

I'm ashamed to say that when mooching around for foxes, I always keep one up the spout. Its staggering how they can hear a bolt loading at 2oo yards on a still night. When going out with a mate, never walk hot.

 

[The Singing Stalker]

I am in the Blaser decocker camp. The downside is you need to learn the proper technique to get it ready to fire and it is not as easy as your 'normal' safety.
But, still continue with muzzle awareness and proper safety at all times.

 

[potshotpat]

I wonder how many people have been shot with an unloaded gun. Or Sorry I thought the safety was on.

 

[Shootingspark]

when I first started shooting I had 2 left hand rifles(hand me downs) though I am a right hand shooter. carrying the rifle on my right side would cause the safety to be knocked off at times so carrying one in the spout was out of the question.
A unique situation I suppose but better to be on the right side of safety

 

[VSS]

I wonder how many people have been shot with an unloaded gun. Or Sorry I thought the safety was on.

I reckon most accidents are caused by a gun that was believed to be empty.
I think part of the problem, here in the UK, is that we're forever loading and unloading to the point that we no longer know whether the gun is loaded or not, and then we check, and check again because we forgot whether it was loaded or not the first time we looked, and so on. All a bit muddled, really.
I recall the remarks of another member of this site, who spends much of his time in Mozambique:

"As soon as I arrive in Africa I load my rifle, and it remains loaded until I leave".

To us, that may sound risky, but it's not, because he always knows, without fail, the status of his rifle. There is never any doubt about the matter, and therefore no accidents involving rifles believed to be unloaded.

 

[VSS]

when I first started shooting I had 2 left hand rifles(hand me downs) though I am a right hand shooter. carrying the rifle on my right side would cause the safety to be knocked off at times so carrying one in the spout was out of the question.
A unique situation I suppose but better to be on the right side of safety

I have right handed rifles, with flag safety catches.
If I carry them on my right side, the safety catch is easily accidentally knocked off by my clothing, so it's clearly not a problem unique to left handed rifles.

 

[caorach]

Since I bought my first Blaser 25 years ago this is a non-issue for me.

I also have a Blaser and I appreciate what you are saying but I don't think any of us can say that the Blaser system can't fire without the user knowingly cocking it. I think it is "more safe" than a conventional safety but I also believe there are circumstances where it could "fail."

One example that comes to my head is that if you were to cock the rifle for some reason and then uncock it again, perhaps you didn't take the shot or perhaps you were firing a few rounds at a target, then a bit of dirt in the mechanism could prevent the complete "uncocking" of the spring. You then have a "completely safe" uncocked Blaser that just needs a bit of dirt disturbed to fire. I have no idea if this has actually happened but it is certainly one potential way in which an "uncocked" Blaser could fire.

I carry my rifle with one in the chamber as I'm mostly stalking in forestry and the chances of getting a shot if carrying the rifle empty is almost zero but I try to keep in mind that it is not entirely safe as mechanical failure could always produce an outcome I didn't expect.

 

[MAH]

So how safe is a safety on?

Not as safe as an empty chamber!
I agree with you.
In simple terms, I thing about loaded and uploaded.
Loaded and safety on can give a false sense of safety.
M

 

[Shootingspark]

I have right handed rifles, with flag safety catches.
If I carry them on my right side, the safety catch is easily accidentally knocked off by my clothing, so it's clearly not a problem unique to left handed rifles.

Fair point, Suppose it comes down to the individual circumstances rather than a one rule fits all.