How safe is a "safety"
- Thread starter Zulu999
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Dave Lakes
Well-Known Member
Maybe I'm about to be a bit pedantic, but confusion is a common contributing factor to accidents in general. There are a lot of conflicting terms being used so-
Loaded: rounds are in the rifle.
Made ready/cocked: rounds are in the rifle and one is chambered.
Two very different states, and probably important to know which is being referred to. “Just get the rifle out and load it….”
Loaded: rounds are in the rifle.
Made ready/cocked: rounds are in the rifle and one is chambered.
Two very different states, and probably important to know which is being referred to. “Just get the rifle out and load it….”
Walked up rough shooting is 2 in the chambers with it broken makes you a quick snap shot.
Out foxing stalking loaded muzzle down, I remember a red hind slowly stepping out as I was on her blind side behind a Oak, if I had to chamber a round she would have been galloping like seabiscuit. Free handing a red at 50 yds is quite exciting.
Out foxing stalking loaded muzzle down, I remember a red hind slowly stepping out as I was on her blind side behind a Oak, if I had to chamber a round she would have been galloping like seabiscuit. Free handing a red at 50 yds is quite exciting.
Having a cocked gun with one up the spout is putting all your eggs in one basket, that being the manufacturer's safety arrangement. There's only one thing to go wrong somehow to cause a discharge. I'd say as a general rule, have nowt up t'spout! But there are exceptions, such as in the presence (or potential presence) of dangerous game or where cycling a bolt would ruin the stalk/hunt. Although you've got to realise the increased risk and in the latter circumstance, I'd rather a ruined shot opportunity than an ND. Those that make the point of muzzle awareness have a good point.
I knew someone who was standing on as peg on a pheasant shoot who had a heart attack, said to be dead before he hit the ground. However when his gun hit the ground, both barrels went off. I don't know whether the safety was on, but it's an example of how things can suddenly go wrong. Thankfully (apart from the poor man in question) nobody was hurt.
I knew someone who was standing on as peg on a pheasant shoot who had a heart attack, said to be dead before he hit the ground. However when his gun hit the ground, both barrels went off. I don't know whether the safety was on, but it's an example of how things can suddenly go wrong. Thankfully (apart from the poor man in question) nobody was hurt.
With zero firing-spring tension in the de-cocked position, I cannot see how a Blaser could possibly discharge a chambered round.
I.e. a decocker is utterly different from a standard rifle "safety". Rifles that have safety catches are preventing an already tensioned spring from releasing. In a decocked firearm, there is no pre-tensioning of the firing-spring. No touching of the trigger or even dropping the rifle can change the firing-spring's relaxed status.
When you cock or decock a Blaser, you can feel the resistance of the spring ramping up or releasing. If a Blaser were taken off cock, and there was no pressure against your thumb as you released the button, I would cycle the bolt and run additional checks.
Not mentioned in this thread, but something I have seen, is a bolt so fouled that the firing pin is jammed such that it protrudes from the bolt-face. In this scenario, the very act of chambering a round positively can cause an ND. [regular maintenance essential]
Whatever safety regime works for you, utterly paramount is muzzle-awareness at all times.
Are you speaking for yourself Tim....Nothing muddled this side Open the gate Close the gate park the truck load rifle go stalking or walk to high seat get in load rifle shoot or not unload go home..
I got back to the truck last night unloaded put the rifle in the slip, looked across the road with thermal Fox! took rifle in slip sticks walked down the road into the field dumped slip loaded shot the fox walked back unloaded slipped rifle walked back to the truck..nothing muddled just the right way to go abt it.
Or do you have a different version to what I did lol
FoxAndDeer
Well-Known Member
I don't trust the little safety to not get caught on my jacket and then go off while stalking. But equally i stalk in woodland where quick opps occur.
My solution is carry the rifle muzzle down, one in the chamber but the bolt open. My rifle has a little 'step' when closing the bolt where it is still open, but the bolt can't slide backwards (and it's pointing down so not an issue anyway).
Then when an opportunity occurs all that is needed is to close the bolt, which is silent.
My solution is carry the rifle muzzle down, one in the chamber but the bolt open. My rifle has a little 'step' when closing the bolt where it is still open, but the bolt can't slide backwards (and it's pointing down so not an issue anyway).
Then when an opportunity occurs all that is needed is to close the bolt, which is silent.
Heym SR20
Well-Known Member
All guns are always loaded - first rule of gun safety
Yet the vast majority of gun accidents happen with “I thought it was unloaded” guns.
As for Blasers. I was once handed a Blaser by a gentleman who got out of a truck with three dead deer in the back. He had just driven 10 miles on public roads like that. He asked me to pop it inside whilst they unloaded the deer. I did, but before going inside I opened the bolt and out fell a 300 win mag round. So i emptied the magazine as well. I handed him the four cartridges. “Oh you didn’t need to do that, I keep it loaded all the time even when its in the safe back home. Its a Blaser so its perfectly safe”. So he had driven up the M6 and A9 with a fully loaded rifle.
Yet the vast majority of gun accidents happen with “I thought it was unloaded” guns.
As for Blasers. I was once handed a Blaser by a gentleman who got out of a truck with three dead deer in the back. He had just driven 10 miles on public roads like that. He asked me to pop it inside whilst they unloaded the deer. I did, but before going inside I opened the bolt and out fell a 300 win mag round. So i emptied the magazine as well. I handed him the four cartridges. “Oh you didn’t need to do that, I keep it loaded all the time even when its in the safe back home. Its a Blaser so its perfectly safe”. So he had driven up the M6 and A9 with a fully loaded rifle.
Foxyboy43
Well-Known Member
Hmmm. When I started many, many years ago I was always taught to treat every firearm as though it was loaded; the safety catch could not be 100% depended upon; and “empty” firearms have killed more people than loaded ones. Great advice and something that has stayed with me forever.
During the intervening years I have seen quite a few instances of over-dependence on safety catches - once from a 9mm semiauto being “plonked” on the dining table by someone who wanted to emphasise his point about “solving” the NI problem - Mrs FB who was not then into shooting reached for it and I knocked her hand out of the way and grabbed the pistol, turned away, pointed it at the floor and racked it and out fell you know what. My highly embarrassed host offered “don’t worry the catch was on”- only it wasn’t and that is how he carried his personal protection firearm night and day. I also helped run an informal clay pigeon club where I was safety officer - many, many times I found shotguns placed in the temporary rack with both tubes “occupied” - again “no worries the safety was on” was the defence.
Sooo at the risk of sounding like the old fool that many (probably with at least some justification) perceive me to be - the primary “safety catch” is you and you are fallible, the secondary one is the “safety catch” on the modern wonder of steel and wood/plastic that you carry across fields, ditches and fences all of which offer their own little opportunities for disaster and sadly despite all the wonders of modern machining someday, just once and once is all it takes, it just might fail.
Finally, I clearly remember one particular hot debate where some eejit said that safety catches were totally reliable but when one chap suggested loading his firearm, “kissing” the muzzle and “testing” the efficacy of the safety catch as we watched he strangely declined.
Your call.
During the intervening years I have seen quite a few instances of over-dependence on safety catches - once from a 9mm semiauto being “plonked” on the dining table by someone who wanted to emphasise his point about “solving” the NI problem - Mrs FB who was not then into shooting reached for it and I knocked her hand out of the way and grabbed the pistol, turned away, pointed it at the floor and racked it and out fell you know what. My highly embarrassed host offered “don’t worry the catch was on”- only it wasn’t and that is how he carried his personal protection firearm night and day. I also helped run an informal clay pigeon club where I was safety officer - many, many times I found shotguns placed in the temporary rack with both tubes “occupied” - again “no worries the safety was on” was the defence.
Sooo at the risk of sounding like the old fool that many (probably with at least some justification) perceive me to be - the primary “safety catch” is you and you are fallible, the secondary one is the “safety catch” on the modern wonder of steel and wood/plastic that you carry across fields, ditches and fences all of which offer their own little opportunities for disaster and sadly despite all the wonders of modern machining someday, just once and once is all it takes, it just might fail.
Finally, I clearly remember one particular hot debate where some eejit said that safety catches were totally reliable but when one chap suggested loading his firearm, “kissing” the muzzle and “testing” the efficacy of the safety catch as we watched he strangely declined.
Your call.
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Stalker62
Well-Known Member
One of our little group had just taken an animal with his 500x450.
It was very early on during our trip. He unloaded his (beautiful) rifle, and informed the PH that he had done so.
The PH's response was calm, understated and perfectly clear.
"Sir, this is Africa, please load your rifle".
Told me all I needed to know.
Our little group (if I say so myself) have very good muzzle awareness, and would also 'prove' each others firearms when returning to trucks or camp or similar.
Norfolk Deer Search
Well-Known Member
Not a problem
I can recall you saying on your previous trip you stood "on guard" with a rifle the PH gave you and when it was "All Clear" you opened the rifle to find it empty ?One of our little group had just taken an animal with his 500x450.
It was very early on during our trip. He unloaded his (beautiful) rifle, and informed the PH that he had done so.
The PH's response was calm, understated and perfectly clear.
"Sir, this is Africa, please load your rifle".
Told me all I needed to know.
Our little group (if I say so myself) have very good muzzle awareness, and would also 'prove' each others firearms when returning to trucks or camp or similar.
I grew up in Africa too, and was taught (1) the standard ‘treat all firearms as loaded’, (2) this because they usually were. It was entirely standard to chamber a round on leaving the truck. It was not uncommon for it to be left loaded in the truck.
I certainly don’t ever remember being told not to stalk with one chambered.
Now, I decide what to do based on context. On my own - usually chamber as soon as I leave the truck. With someone - usually leave empty, unless we’re in thick woodland and there’s unlikely to be crawling.
What would you do out rough shooting walk along with the gun empty...
How abt in the pigeon hide or on a teal splash at last light...
Imagine on a spaniel trial day when 4 guns walk in line then snap shoot a bird..."sorry it was empty"
There is a vast difference to people who have come through the above ways then move on to rifles, then the many joining/starting out straight into a C/F
Safety is not just confined to rifle ranks...
@Norfolk Deer Search
Do it as a matter of course every few months. Because I generally stalk loaded…
No, not talking about anyone in particular, but you emphasise my point in that there's an awful lot of loading and unloading involved in UK shooting, with everyone having their own individual routine and their own idea of what's right and what's wrong, to the point that you never know from what someone is doing (eg, whether they're stalking, standing about, negotiating obstacles, gun in slip / out of slip etc) whether their gun is likely to be loaded or not, and in moments of inattention it's pretty easy for the chap with the gun to forget too. And then accidents happen.
I've done all these things Tim and was specifically talking with reference to walking with a rifle. You are always very keen to frame things within your world view
Norfolk Deer Search
Well-Known Member
I walk miles with a rifle with one up the spout, whats the problem?I've done all these things Tim and was specifically talking with reference to walking with a rifle. You are always very keen to frame things within your world view
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