HSE Lead restriction extension

[Bowland blades]

It is also in my experience has a very much louder report, which could become a significant problem for clay grounds.

As a hand loader of shotgun and rifle , i cannot see any reason why steel would be louder in report as both start at super sonic flight . It very well might be someone is shooting Hunting charges of steel 36 grams up with more powder ( which will not be legal in comp or on many clay grounds ) and your rating magnum loads against 28 gram and under clay loads perhaps ?
Steel clay loads are very much different .
Lets be fair If i came on with 63 gram super magnum lead 3 1/2" and the guy next to me was on 24-28 gram steel ? My lead loads would be significantly more in report !

 

[old 30-06]

One of my local clay grounds is steel only. I use 24g, (or 21g if I can get them) of number seven and a half. They work very well on skeet. I have not noticed steel to be any louder (or quieter) than lead.

 

[Bowland blades]

One of my local clay grounds is steel only. I use 24g, (or 21g if I can get them) of number seven and a half. They work very well on skeet. I have not noticed steel to be any louder (or quieter) than lead.

I am no clay shooter but a top Skeet shooter told me that steel is a lot better at breaking those targets as there is more pellets for the mass
My own findings is with steel there are few if any pure luck kills , because very few fliers occur

 

[timbrayford]

Oh downside is steel ricochets and can really hurt when it comes off trees and such , easy enough to blind someone

Which makes it suitable for treeless foreshores and a dangerous hazard for lowland game shooting, and to be frank, not that much good in lightweight sbs game guns either. Incidentally, if steel is that wonderful why not have steel cored rifle bullets, over to you UKREACH/HSE give us your opinion!

 

[Liveonce]

As a hand loader of shotgun and rifle , i cannot see any reason why steel would be louder in report as both start at super sonic flight . It very well might be someone is shooting Hunting charges of steel 36 grams up with more powder ( which will not be legal in comp or on many clay grounds ) and your rating magnum loads against 28 gram and under clay loads perhaps ?
Steel clay loads are very much different .
Lets be fair If i came on with 63 gram super magnum lead 3 1/2" and the guy next to me was on 24-28 gram steel ? My lead loads would be significantly more in report !

I can only say as I find, Bioammo steel shot clay cartridges certainly louder than an equivalent lead shot cartridge, the muzzle report is louder, possibly due to the need to accelerate and hence drive the steel shot much faster to have similar down range energy to the lead shot.

 

[terrier1]

The day I'm forced to use steel shot in my shotgun, is the day I pack it in. I have too much mechanical sympathy to allow myself to destroy a perfectly good gun, metal to metal contact of 2 similar metals is a recipe for shooting the barrel out prematurely.

And there's the problem just what the anti shooting brigade wants. And something our shooting organisations didn't see coming.

 

[timbrayford]

And there's the problem just what the anti shooting brigade wants. And something our shooting organisations didn't see coming.

Whatever substitute for lead we end up with steel is not the answer

 

[NullMac]

why not have steel cored rifle bullets

had them for years. a lot of eastern european 5.56/223 and 7.62/308 FMJ loadings

 

[Bowland blades]

I can only say as I find, Bioammo steel shot clay cartridges certainly louder than an equivalent lead shot cartridge, the muzzle report is louder, possibly due to the need to accelerate and hence drive the steel shot much faster to have similar down range energy to the lead shot.

One brand of lead cartridge against another will be different naturally . The speed once we go supersonic could / should be assessed as equal with lead .
Shooting say a full stack 3 or 3 1/2 " steel wildfowling load against a light clay load obviously isn't a level playing field.
Light lead loads for clays might very well be subsonic depending on air density bear in mind

 

[Bowland blades]

Whatever substitute for lead we end up with steel is not the answer

Besides certain grounds with crazy ricochet risks, verging on or over the dodgy side with lead i see no reason why not ?. Remember steel looses velocity faster than lead , so some grounds could actually increase their total number of stands
I have shot a lot of steel at clays

 

[Liveonce]

One brand of lead cartridge against another will be different naturally . The speed once we go supersonic could / should be assessed as equal with lead .

Not true at the muzzle otherwise every supersonic rifle caliber would make the same report and they just do not, plus a .410 supersonic is quieter than a 12ga supersonic.

 

[Spear Chucker]

Because if we say pulled out a total reprieve next week , it would be a stick to beat us with at every bend in the road .

wrong

 

[Spear Chucker]

REACH Independent Scientific Expert Panel (RISEP)

Current members of UK REACH Independent Scientific Expert Pool (RISEP) - HSE

www.hse.gov.uk

Prof Green and Prof Pain as members are not independent but authors of reports being used as part of the scientific data to ban lead.

Don’t see anybody from BASC on the list?

BASC probably think they have already successfully sold us down the river and there is no need to be part of the process..

 

[enfieldspares]

had them for years. a lot of eastern european 5.56/223 and 7.62/308 FMJ loadings

Czech 9mm Parabellum (that came in eight round stripper clips) was always "interesting" on any indoor range with a steel backplate! Ditto ex-Russian as in Soviet Russian 7.62mm Tokarev.

 

[Spear Chucker]

Read this. The facts are inescapable. This is nothing but a stitch up.

An Important Letter for Steve Barclay COUNTRY SQUIRE MAGAZINE

BY MARK CRUDGINGTON Rt Hon Steve Barclay MP, DEFRA Dear Mr Barclay , I am a master gun maker who has for the last 18 months been communicating with your predecessor concerning the proposed ban of l…

countrysquire.co.uk

 

[enfieldspares]

BASC probably think they have already successfully sold us down the river and there is no need to be part of the process..

And I also seem to recall that the timing of the BASC "diktat" wasn't too far behind the announcement that Eley had developed a biodegradeable wad (unique to them) for use with steel shot. Is there something that we haven't been told? Coincidence or collusion?

 

[Smellydog]

had them for years. a lot of eastern european 5.56/223 and 7.62/308 FMJ loadings

There is steel cased ammunition and steel jacketed bullets but I've not heard of a solid steel bullet. Please supply a link to further my education.

 

[Dunwaters]

Whatever substitute for lead we end up with steel is not the answer

So pick another one, you’re going to need it.

 

[enfieldspares]

The Czech 9mm was a steel jacket and a steel bullet shaped core (in 9mm it was the size of what an all steel .32 ACP bullet might look like) and between the steel core and the steel jacket a very thin "wrap" of lead. So if HSE mandated such it would then likely be then prohibited under s5.

British WWII .55 Boyes and .303 ammunition with a "W" prefix was steel cored. But interestingly enough the manuals of the time say that the .303 is NOT to be used against aircraft (in preference to standard lead cored ammunition) as it would pass straight through whereas lead cored ammunition would break up and the fragments would be more likely to hit and it was hoped cut or damage fuel lines, control cables, electric wiring, instruments and etc..

British Military Small Arms Ammo - .303 inch Armour Piercing

In the years preceding World War One the War Office had experimented with a .303 inch armour piercing bullet based on a design by George Roth of Austria which had given encouraging results against steel plate, but gave less penetration against deal planks than the standard Mark VI ball bullet.

sites.google.com

German "S" ball military 7.92 Mauser was steel cored. I remember shooting some at steel falling plates in a competition using an old 8x57 stalking rifle with a Goertz 'scope. The guys with the .303 Lee Enfield rifles and standard Mk VII ball knocked the plates over. My stalking rifle not only knocked them over but drilled a nice hole. This was in the early 1980s when the only cheap full jacket 8x57 was either mixed German WWII stuff (which could be lead, steel, God knows what. Blue annulus, black annulus and etc. Or ex-British Kynoch 7.92mm BESA machine gun ammunition which was only ever seen in standard lead core specification.

 

[Spear Chucker]

And I also seem to recall that the timing of the BASC "diktat" wasn't too far behind the announcement that Eley had developed a biodegradeable wad (unique to them) for use with steel shot. Is there something that we haven't been told? Coincidence or collusion?

Like most lobbying organisations, they become too close to the enemy. BASC have long forgotten who pays their wages and why. I would say that the NFU are the same when you consider the fuss about Red Tractor and the jobbery that has gone on there. Since when would you have expected Tim Bonner and the CA to start whining about "Social License" and advocating a Red Tractor style accreditation scheme for shoots? Bonner thinks the Red Tractor scheme is the bees knees. Clearly he has no idea how it is failing British farmers. The lobbying organisations are all hell bent on justifying themselves to their membership, rather than slaying the dragon. Compromise, compromise compromise. Now there is no family silver left to pawn. The Dane has all of the Geld and he still has his hand out for more. We are betrayed by the shooting organisations. Poke these pigeon-toed twits, get some people in who understand principle and conviction and how to scrap. Apologies. Touched a nerve.