I'm torn, 17H, 222,223???

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Heym SR20 said:
I know that the 17 HMR with non toxic ammo is being used widely by the likes of Forestry commission and other agencies for vermin control and has replace the 22lr.

I have a Remington 700 in 223 with a 1 in 12” twist rate. It shoots a 50gr copper bullet very well. Below is the effect on a crow at 150 odd yards after being hit by a 51gn Peregrine bullet. Same bullet works very well on Roe, and whilst I haven’t yet I suspect effect on a fox will be equally terminal.

223 is easy to get ammo for with plenty of non toxic options. And I would probably go for a 1 in 9” or 10” twist as that gives you a greater choice of bullets. 222, in older models tends ti have a bit slower twist rate, yet I know @Edinburgh Rifles have developed loads that work well in older CZ 222.

I am waiting for a 1 in 12” twist to line a Rook rifle to 22 Hornet to give me a light small game / vermin rifle.

Will probably drop down to a 35 to 40 odd grain bullet of non toxic variety for this application.
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Hornady 35 grain NTX works well in my 14 twist Horn.
Ken.
 
Smellydog said:
All sage comments and none the wiser.
I've owned three 222 and three 22 hornets, miss the 222's the most.

Anyone shot ppu 222 ammunition? It's quite cheap etc....
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I’ve shot ppu .222 in five different guns (2x tikka t3, 2x Sako 75 and 1x Sako vixen). The Tikkas shot it as well as I could hold. The vixen was reasonable. The 75s were dreadful. This correlated with more general patterns: the Tikkas were the least fussy about ammo, and I could shoot more or less anything through them with minimal adjustment. The 75s were extremely fussy, and it was always a ball ache finding accurate ammunition for them. And I’ve seen it said often on here that fussy rifles often struggle with ppu, but it shoots well in unfussy guns.

Re. The earlier noise question: with a good mod, I think any bystander would be very hard pressed to tell the difference between all of the small bore vermin/small deer cartridges. It’s a variable that I don’t think is worth worrying about when deciding what to get.
 
Overlay said:
i used them for quite a time, how did you find that round actually worked on foxes, i got a few runners and changed to Winchester soft point 50 grn in 22 hornet and they are pretty good,
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Hi Overlay,
I've not shot any foxes with them in the Hornet yet.
Been using them in the 22 Fireball at ranges from 25 to around 50 yards. No exits and no runners, but they're going around 3500/600 fps.
I'm fitting the Hornet with nv before foxing with it.
Cheers, Ken.
 
billy_boyle_2010 said:
All will be expensive to run as regular rabbit ammo.

.17 Hornet is not a regular fox calibre IMO. it's not really enough for daily fox use. It's also £1/shot which adds up for rabbits.

222 and 223 are real fox calibres of course but arguably too much for rabbits.
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HMR is very regular as a fox rifle for me buddy. How many photos would you like to see?
I fail to see how 17 hornet would be any different.
When were a lad a 22lr was a real fox calibre!

Thanks anyway 😊
 
Smellydog said:
HMR is very regular as a fox rifle for me buddy. How many photos would you like to see?
I fail to see how 17 hornet would be any different.
When were a lad a 22lr was a real fox calibre!

Thanks anyway 😊
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Indeed all rimfires including 22lr are fox calibres provided you work within their limits. I have shot more foxes with 22lr than I ever have with HMR.

But assuming you're sensible about a hmrs range limit on fox- 100 ish yards- and the sort of weather conditions it copes with- a 22 calibre CF will at least double the range in all conditions and be more forgiving of rushed shot placement etc.
 
Overlay said:
Keep the 17 HMR. And get a 17 & 22 hornet and the deuce job done No probs 🤙
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Keeping the HMR is probably the right answer for now. Lead-free ammo is available for the HMR.
@Smellydog doesn't tell us how many rabbits he shoots with his HMR or what he does with the carcasses. At any volume the HMR is probably the most cost-effect rabbit round and if the carcasses are mostly for home consumption or given away, I'd keep using lead and wait and see whether it becomes necessary to go non-toxic and then test lead-free HMR ammo in his rifle to see if it that option will work.

If not, at that stage I'd start looking at other cartridges. By then he should have a better idea of lead-free availability for other calibres and what kind of twist rate will be needed. That could be an issue with the .222. How much lead-free choice will there be, whether in bullets for reloading or factory ammo off the shelf, for the .222 when a lead ban comes? Will it work with the twist rates usually found in rifles with that chambering? If you buy a used .222 and find you need to rebarrel it for copper it could be an expensive mistake just to shoot rabbits.
For me there's just not enough information around at the moment to risk a change of rifle before the shift to lead-free has bedded into the market.

Used HMRs aren't worth much at the best of times. If his is doing the business now and he likes it, I'd hang on to it, get as much use out of it as possible while he can and wait to see how things pan out with lead-free and then, if the HMR becomes obsolete for his purposes, the alternatives will be clearer and he won't to drop too much money if he has to replace it.
 
Finch said:
Keeping the HMR is probably the right answer for now. Lead-free ammo is available for the HMR.
@Smellydog doesn't tell us how many rabbits he shoots with his HMR or what he does with the carcasses. At any volume the HMR is probably the most cost-effect rabbit round and if the carcasses are mostly for home consumption or given away, I'd keep using lead and wait and see whether it becomes necessary to go non-toxic and then test lead-free HMR ammo in his rifle to see if it that option will work.

If not, at that stage I'd start looking at other cartridges. By then he should have a better idea of lead-free availability for other calibres and what kind of twist rate will be needed. That could be an issue with the .222. How much lead-free choice will there be, whether in bullets for reloading or factory ammo off the shelf, for the .222 when a lead ban comes? Will it work with the twist rates usually found in rifles with that chambering? If you buy a used .222 and find you need to rebarrel it for copper it could be an expensive mistake just to shoot rabbits.
For me there's just not enough information around at the moment to risk a change of rifle before the shift to lead-free has bedded into the market.

Used HMRs aren't worth much at the best of times. If his is doing the business now and he likes it, I'd hang on to it, get as much use out of it as possible while he can and wait to see how things pan out with lead-free and then, if the HMR becomes obsolete for his purposes, the alternatives will be clearer and he won't to drop too much money if he has to replace it.
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Sage advice, thank you.

I don't shoot many rabbits anymore and the ones I prefer for my own table I like to use a muzzloader or 30-30. The small amount of pesting I do now the rabbits go to dog breeders. Hounds.
 
Smellydog said:
Sage advice, thank you.

I don't shoot many rabbits anymore and the ones I prefer for my own table I like to use a muzzloader or 30-30. The small amount of pesting I do now the rabbits go to dog breeders. Hounds.
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As above then. Keep hold till the lead ammo dries up (if it does - if not game dealer bans on lead-shot carcasses won't effect you). Then try copper and reassess. That would be my approach. I know you like your HMR - I like mine, accepting that it can be a bit of a drama queen. I miss my triple and I'm intrigued about the .17 Hornet, but as the HMR works and I'm not itching to change it for the sake of it, I'll hang on to it until the non-toxic kerfuffle dies down.

Then, assuming ammo options permit and I was prepared to start home-loading, I'd revisit the .222 before I looked at a .223. I loved mine though shooting 40 grn BTs at 3300 pfs it was heavy handed on rabbits, even when head-shot. On the other hand, it's such a versatile cartridge and if a slower expanding and less destructive copper bullet option was available it could make a brilliant do-it-all small game rifle, usable for rabbits and fox-capable at longer range than a Hornet.
 
Brno2e said:
Why shoot PPU 222.. go to Livens and get a thousand 53 grain Speer bullets for next to naff all and sit them on top of some V130 or 133.
Just put the rifle nearest to the cabinet door and enjoy.
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Out of stock . . . .

and they will be more expensive if they come back in.
 
For me, 222 or 223.

I’ve got both, there’s little between them, I’d you want to shoot heavier bullets the 223 is better suited. For any bullets upto 55gr there is nothing notable between them for your type of shooting.

Find the rifle you want and let that dictate the chambering.
 
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