INEOS GRENADIER

There’s something of the non export african style toyota landcruiser about its form, initially displeasing but kinda like it in a weird way. Would like to see a pick-up version if one were available. One has to wonder though in this woke/green day and age whether this is a little late to the party and akin to rearranging deckchairs on the titanic? How long before these won’t be supported in gas-guzzling form?
 
There’s something of the non export african style toyota landcruiser about its form, initially displeasing but kinda like it in a weird way. Would like to see a pick-up version if one were available. One has to wonder though in this woke/green day and age whether this is a little late to the party and akin to rearranging deckchairs on the titanic? How long before these won’t be supported in gas-guzzling form?
Not perhaps for central London, but it will be a good while before there is the power available in the grid to run fully electric or hydrogen powered vehicles. The Grenadier will be used where you need torque and off road performance. They are already looking at electric and hybrid options though.

The other big challenge with current battery technologies is providing large power requirements for acceleration and towing type applications. Lithium / gel type batteries do not like provide high voltages and high currents for such peak demands. They get very hot and need lots of cooling systems. Battery powered buses are already suffering these problems.

I am thinking of one perhaps, but I think I would go petrol. And with a modern efficient engine, I expect you will still pretty good MPG.

But the Grenadier will be much more a commercial vehicle, than a yummy mummy Chelsea Tractor. It is going right for market of the 70 series Landcruisers, Nissan Patrols, older heavy duty Defenders and commercial G Wagons and the Peugeot licenced version for the French military. I see the big buyers being Aid agencies, NGOs, utility companies, mining etc etc - in other words those who bought and ran fleets of the above vehicles, now running pickups, but for whom the toughness, size and longevity of the 70 series etc far outweighs the initial purchase price.

For us deerstalkers etc, these will make very good buys in three to five years time as they come out of commercial fleets. Some of course will be utterly shagged, but many will not.

And yes I want one. If fact I want one like I had an early C Plate 110. It was a van with heavy duty rear suspension and 2.5 litre petrol engine, 5 speed box and sliding side windows. It was an ex forestry vehicle and I was all ready to overland down to Zim when Algeria etc all blew up. It was a reliable and easily fixed vehicle. I hope the Grenadier is the modern day equivalent.
 
But will it rust?
Doubt it. Its all fully galvanised and then properly painted. It will be built to German engineering standards rather than Landrover.

Jaguar Landrover are of course owned by Tata who are major steel manufacturers. Fantastic business model. Landrover owners pay a fortune for what will quickly become the raw material for their steel production process. Yes the old defenders have ali bodies, but all the steel buts need replacing pretty often.
 
So if you want one with seats for more than two people, and useable cargo space you're looking at almost £70000. Seventy. Thousand. Pounds.

Insane
 
So if you want one with seats for more than two people, and useable cargo space you're looking at almost £70000. Seventy. Thousand. Pounds.

Insane
Will be interesting to see what sorts of prices it will command in other territories. Bear in mind it is treated as an import into the UK from the EU, and an component parts that are sourced from outwith the EU will have import tariffs imposed. Then of course we have the ripp off Britain tax as well.
 
Will be interesting to see what sorts of prices it will command in other territories. Bear in mind it is treated as an import into the UK from the EU, and an component parts that are sourced from outwith the EU will have import tariffs imposed. Then of course we have the ripp off Britain tax as well.
I just cannot for the life of me see how anyone could view it as acceptable value for money.
 
I just cannot for the life of me see how anyone could view it as acceptable value for money.
Quite, but those who want to kit it out with latest Roof tent etc etc won’t worry about price - Porche or one of these. They are paying £50k plus for custom Defenders. I know a couple of guys who run a specialist Defender emporium. They have plenty who have the cash to spend.

One benefit is that surely the price of proper Defenders will fall off a cliff. The Grenadier will remain high whilst they have a “cult” brand value. Once there are plenty on the road second hand prices should make them affordable.
 
It was a reliable and easily fixed vehicle. I hope the Grenadier is the modern day equivalent.
Heys,
I agree with all you’ve written…except, I don’t think the last bit can happen anymore due to computers being in the mix. :(
Thanks, Ken.
 
Heys,
I agree with all you’ve written…except, I don’t think the last bit can happen anymore due to computers being in the mix. :(
Thanks, Ken.
Two things on this. Having watched the development of the Grenadier electronics are being kept limited. Solid state components are not the problem per se, it’s often the wiring and quality of the wiring. Good wiring that is flexible with proper well made connections and a loom that is properly fixed sorts many of the issues. Cheap hard wiring that doesn’t flex with spade end connectors give all sorts of problems.

As to actual control boards, provided major functions are separated they are easily swapped out. Challenge and expense comes when one unit controls the whole vehicle and it also carries all the VIN numbers, anti theft etc etc. If your engine etc gets broken and you can easily swap it then probably far more reliable than old mechanical points and carburettors etc.

I, probably like you are of a generation where we understand mechanical analogue machinery. Most kids these days fully understand digital stuff. The big challenge with computer systems on vehicles is dealers with holding access to the software required to manage all the bits and pieces.

The Grenadier is work on an open source basis, so pretty much any body with a laptop, ipad, smart phone etc will be able interrogate, diagnose and fix things. But my understanding is that the primary design of the Grenadier is solid mechanical systems that work without needing lots of clever electronics. So its traction is through good beam axles, with well designed linkages, springs and dampers that maintain contact with ground and power is delivered by good differential systems - and the system is not relying on clever electronics to stop wheels spinning.

As for all the user entertainment, information systems etc. Ineos is working on the basis that all of us have powerful devices in our pockets with our preferred navigation etc. All they do is provide an interface for this. And the system is made so the vehicle is not reliant on them.

Going back to circuit boards, ECUs etc it would make sense that spares are made available, and if you are overlanding or operating remotely take these as spares. In the same way as carrying fan belt, sets of points and capacitors, and sundry nuts and bolts, hose clamps.

It’s a bit we all use to use tubed tyres, and we used ti carry spare tubes in the bush, and puncture were a weekly if not daily occurrence. Modern tubeless tyres are so so much better. You can run them softer or harder, and when you do get a puncture you can just plug them. But you need a plugging kit. And id you do take a tyre off, you do really need a compressor to reseat them - a foot pump is not going to work. Either have one on the vehicle, or find a truck.
 
Jagd und hund in Dortmund, I did the show on Friday and surprise surprise, there was an Ineos stand with a pilot build (almost at production level) vehicle on show with its doors open but blocked against entry like in airports with those yard high poles and tape jobbies. It has they said steel double galvanised body panels, I checked that with my mini magnet and all the closures "doors - hood/bonnet - tailgate are in alloy, the steel chassis is modern electro paint dipped inside and out then the inside is also wax injected. I got talking to the German head engineer, he was around 35 years old who it turned out had studied for a year at the Coventry uni which is 200 yards from my birth house. Anyway the interior panel fits are still with unsaleable gaps and misalignments, no matter it is at pilot build level. Planned numbers to produce are 30K per year the one on show was a 5 seater estate which was he said to run around 68K Euros the commercial version a-la Disco style was expected to be 20K less. It looked interesting but very big and I reckon it would not fit in my garage which could take a Terracan easily. Too expensive for me anyway and a very in your face vehicle which would not impress my local hunters where I have my permissions.
 
My 2 cents on this guys , i think it is a very promising vehicle . The fact that the majority of the engineering has been done by magna (steyr) is a good sign also the fact that they are willing to treat it as open source with rumors that even customer fit components (OE or OEM) will be honored in the warranty puts them ahead of the curve. Cannot recall any car that shipped with a full workshop manual where you were encouraged to use it .

A few months ago they published a pdf with all the supplies for the grenadier , flipping through the pages it was essentially the who’s who of big names in their respective industry. What that told me is that someone left an engineer loose with the company credit card and told them go shopping to build what you want to build not what the marketing and treasury wants you to .
What they essentially produced in my eyes is a G class professional at half the price which is no easy task. Yes the marketing is a bit annoying sometimes with all the other brands thrown in but i am willing to put up with it because they are bringing us a true utilitarian vehicle . I am willing to take a chance on them (Ineos) just because i trust Magna.
The only gripe i have is the BMW engine and the fact that there is no manual gearbox . But again i am willing to trust them .
 
My 2 cents on this guys , i think it is a very promising vehicle . The fact that the majority of the engineering has been done by magna (steyr) is a good sign also the fact that they are willing to treat it as open source with rumors that even customer fit components (OE or OEM) will be honored in the warranty puts them ahead of the curve. Cannot recall any car that shipped with a full workshop manual where you were encouraged to use it .

A few months ago they published a pdf with all the supplies for the grenadier , flipping through the pages it was essentially the who’s who of big names in their respective industry. What that told me is that someone left an engineer loose with the company credit card and told them go shopping to build what you want to build not what the marketing and treasury wants you to .
What they essentially produced in my eyes is a G class professional at half the price which is no easy task. Yes the marketing is a bit annoying sometimes with all the other brands thrown in but i am willing to put up with it because they are bringing us a true utilitarian vehicle . I am willing to take a chance on them (Ineos) just because i trust Magna.
The only gripe i have is the BMW engine and the fact that there is no manual gearbox . But again i am willing to trust them .
I spent 3 months at Steyr in 1977 doing the G wagen drafting then was back there in 1995 on the Audi TT door design they have competence going back many years = a trusted engineering partner, most 4x4 variants of normal vehicles/vans were designed and then built by them.
 
I spent 3 months at Steyr in 1977 doing the G wagen drafting then was back there in 1995 on the Audi TT door design they have competence going back many years = a trusted engineering partner, most 4x4 variants of normal vehicles/vans were designed and then built by them.
That is very cool i bet you have some stories to tell ( please do tell!!! Very keen to hear about the g wagen origin story ) . Magna as a company is an amazing powerhouse and they have designed and produced many offroad vehicles who are consodered the pinicle of reliability and not only. Had no idea they were involved in the audi tt door design .
 
I just checked the on Rd price of a new 110 hardtop defender it's £57,250.00 the other models are more expensive
Personally I think a grenadier will outsell the defender once it becomes available
 
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