Installing gun cabinet/safe in new-build flat

[mattch]

Evening All - looking for some advice please on gun cabinet installation.

I live in a rented new-build flat in London and so the walls aren't made of solid brick/concrete. I don't know exactly how the building is constructed but I believe it'll be based on a steel frame and then some combination of joists, plasterboard etc. Does anyone have any experience installing gun safes in this sort of building? Are their experts that can help with this and what is the police view likely to be?

Many thanks for the help/advice!

Thanks,

Matt

 

[artschool]

what’s the floor build up?

 

[Apthorpe]

I lived in one and the large majority are concrete structures. You may have somewhere around your flat a concrete pillar in the walls somewhere. The council's website will have a copy of the plans available, or you can knock on the walls until you find a solid bit.
Failing that, the floors are usually concrete underneath.
Partition walls may be light metal studwork under plasterboard. I'm not sure how strong that is.

 

[Len the dog]

First off, I assume you have the permission of the landlord to drill holes in things?

As long as you anchor it into timber floor joists and wall studding then I can’t see it being a problem, site it in a corner of a room as it’s harder to pry, and it must be out of sight from both outside the house and the entranceway.
If anchoring into timber then M12 coach screws with a hex head are easiest.

 

[Miceton]

Construction type is a difficult one without seeing it, I’m a surveyor, internal walls are likely stud timber framing with plaster board sheeting, you’d want to be fixing the cabinet to an outer wall of the building.

The outer walls could be constructed of a number of things depending on whether it’s a high rise/low rise block of apartments. Some may be block elevations which should be okay for fixing a cabinet to, or best case scenario they’re concrete panels. The best way to find out is to drill some pilot holes and see what it is, or, if it’s a modern built building ask the developer who will be able to confirm what and where is solid.

 

[Apthorpe]

In the event that you don't have or don't want to seek the landlord's permission....e.g. for security reasons. Just make it good when you leave. There's nothing they can do about other than claim a nominal amount of your deposit of there was any damage.

 

[mattch]

This is all very helpful - thank you. I hadn't thought about fixing it to the floor - that might be a good idea. I could then also put a bed over the safe to completely hide it.

Need to do a recce on floor construction......!

 

[Miceton]

This is all very helpful - thank you. I hadn't thought about fixing it to the floor - that might be a good idea. I could then also put a bed over the safe to completely hide it.

Need to do a recce on floor construction......!

In most modern high rise blocks the floors are commonly concrete which is cast in situ, just be mindful of any voids that house services/pipework etc, but pulling back the carpet should tell you a lot.

 

[Len the dog]

This is all very helpful - thank you. I hadn't thought about fixing it to the floor - that might be a good idea. I could then also put a bed over the safe to completely hide it.

Need to do a recce on floor construction......!

The trouble with putting a bed over it is that plod will see it as a hindrance to putting your gun back in the cabinet when you come in late and her ladyship is already tucked up.

 

[artschool]

This is all very helpful - thank you. I hadn't thought about fixing it to the floor - that might be a good idea. I could then also put a bed over the safe to completely hide it.

Need to do a recce on floor construction......!

i have fixed one into a concrete floor slab in an apartment building. like others have said check for underfloor heating/ pipe work or electrics. in my experience in modern apartment buildings most of these are on the underside of the slab so you should be ok.
i used threaded bar held in place with resin anchors.

 

[Steff]

This is all very helpful - thank you. I hadn't thought about fixing it to the floor - that might be a good idea. I could then also put a bed over the safe to completely hide it.

Need to do a recce on floor construction......!

'Fixing it to the floor' usually means fixing it through the bottom of the cabinet standing upright, not lying horizontally.

 

[mattch]

'Fixing it to the floor' usually means fixing it through the bottom of the cabinet standing upright, not lying horizontally.

Ah - thank you - but there’s no reason it couldn’t be fixed horizontally to the floor….?

 

[Steff]

Ah - thank you - but there’s no reason it couldn’t be fixed horizontally to the floor….?

Technically - no. But I imagine the handling to be quite awkward, to put it mildly.
Also the rifles will have to lie on their sides which will reduce the cabinet's capacity considerably and give away the majority of its space.

 

[JosephKelly]

Generally;
Floor build ups - concrete
Internal walls - metal stud @ 600mm c/c and plasterboard lining
External walls - plasterboard fixed to SFS (heavy gauge metal studs) in between concrete columns.

Easiest option pull away floor coverings or drill to find out if it is concrete, stand vertically and fix to concrete. Do this in the corner of a room and you should also be able to get some vertical fixings into the internal metal studs.

 

[mattch]

Great - thank you for the advice. I’ve had a look and the floor is concrete so I think I’m going to lie it on its back and secure it horizontally to the floor that way.

Much obliged to all for the help!

 

[JockStalk]

Great - thank you for the advice. I’ve had a look and the floor is concrete so I think I’m going to lie it on its back and secure it horizontally to the floor that way.

Much obliged to all for the help!

Think very carefully before doing that. The hinge assembly of the door is a ball ache when fitted on its back. Much better to keep it vertical with bottom secured to floor and rear secured to eg marine ply fixed to secure joists/ straps on wall in suitable corner.

 

[Mungo]

I know of at least one person who just glued the cabinet to the plasterboard. It passed inspection because it seemed completely solid.

 

[Bo Diddley]

It always surprises me when I hear that the cabinet should be fixed to a solid external/internal wall and not a stud wall... if you can get good fixings into a traditional stud wall of 2" x 4" timbers it's going to be solid as a rock, much more secure than going into Thermalite blocks & plasterboard.

Do some careful investigations before you go crazy with the drills....
Atb BD.

 

[Donkey Basher]

In the event that you don't have or don't want to seek the landlord's permission....e.g. for security reasons. Just make it good when you leave. There's nothing they can do about other than claim a nominal amount of your deposit of there was any damage.

Did this in a rental property many years ago. Cabinet went into a built in wardrobe that was wallpapered so after working out where the bolt holes would be I used a Stanley knife to cut the paper the next steamed it of factory the wall, dried it & put a number on the back in pencil that corresponded with the position it came from on a sketch I made. The wallpaper squares & the sketch went into a ziplock bag that was taped inside the cabinet. When I moved out I knocked the remains of the rawlbolts into the hole & used polyfiller to fill in before gluing the wallpaper squares back on. You could find the location of the holes if you knew they were there but otherwise no visible signs.