Do you drink tea ? Or red wine ?
Interesting open letter concerning the lead shot/ammunition ban
- Thread starter Spear Chucker
- Start date
Smellydog
Well-Known Member
I've been trying to inform heym sr20 for ages that lead is everywhere. Banning lead ammunition won't change a thing.
There is probably a proper name for the condition whereupon a person shouts "fire, fire" but doesn't realise in his hand is a burning match....
timbrayford
Well-Known Member
To a point maybe but there will be people who observe as opposed to participating in a discussion, who are genuinely neutral and merely wish to be better informed. I certainly don't expect BASC to expel Swift from their association and admit that they've made a total hash of things!
like thinking game shooting is more important to shooting than clay shooting.
timbrayford
Well-Known Member
Indeed, isn't all this "elite shooter" exemption nonsense merely a tacit acknowledgement that lead shot is by far the best option for clay shooting?
That seriously winds up every clay shooter, total insult to our intelligence, I hope every clay ground in the country after the ban has a policy of no lead shot. Let the elite shooters do what the pistol shooters had to do after the pistol ban and go to another country to shoot.
BASC states shooting is worth £3.3 billion to the economy, would be good to see the breakdown, game vs clays.
I agree with you on this 100%. If they can make an exception for elite shooters then those same grounds should allow any shooter to use lead. otherwise it just makes no sense. I am pretty sure there are no exceptions here but I will try and find out for sure.
Spear Chucker
Well-Known Member
The article is horse manure. It states that lead from ammunition is the largest unregulated source of lead in the environment. That is also horse manure. Norway has very high levels of natural lead deposits both metallic and other forms. The references I have seen appear to be taken out of context or deliberately misinterpreted. Push to fit facts used to support a narrative clearly biased towards curtailing use of lead as a medium in hunting.That article doesn't actually form or describe any actual link but assumes much.
How it is written it's leading the reader in one direction using suggestion and broad sweeping statements. That can be applied to all manner of subjects.
For example, I use to work on a sewage farm but it wasn't mandatory I consume others effluent. But if I desired I'm sure I could write an article that implied I was forced to and it's negative effects to me could be catastrophic.
I also note that Norwegians like to ski.
I would wager that more Norwegians are harmed from skiing than there are actual recorded instances of illness from lead.
The article below maybe of interest and I suggest is proof that something in the makeup of skis is toxic and as there is no safe level of skiing call that they are banned immediately!
18-year-old Norwegian dies in skiing accident in Åre | Sweden Herald
An 18-year-old man from Norway has died in a skiing accident in Åre on Saturdayswedenherald.com
Motorcycles are the same. There is clearly something very toxic in the motorcycle as they kill and injure their users all the time.
And so it goes on and on.
Fuel for agenda's are everywhere!
The origin of atmospheric lead in Oslo, Norway, studied with the use of isotopic ratios
Application of the lead isotope method to differentiate between the local contribution of lead and its portion from long-range transport of air pollut…
www.sciencedirect.com
Concentration and chemical form of lead during natural transportation in groundwater
The concentration and chemical form of lead have been studied in samples of groundwater from two locations in southern Norway. The sites for this stud…
www.sciencedirect.com
This none is a cracker: Mercury, cadmium, lead, and selenium in fishfrom a Norwegian fjord and off the coast, the importance of sampling locality
I had a real giggle with this one: Norway to repeal ban on lead shot
I nearly needed CPR after falling of my chair laughing at this from the CA: "Hard or soft Brexit notwithstanding, the ECHA consultation is a major threat to the future use of lead shot in the UK and the Countryside Alliance will continue to be at the forefront of the discussions. We will not pander to those that seek to unfairly restrict lead shot in an attempt to restrict shooting."
Countryside Alliance Responds to the Updated Lead Ammunition Group Report
The Countryside Alliance has spoken to a number of media outlets to challenge a paper being used to attack the use of lead ammunition. The Secretary of State for the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs wrote to Chairman of the LAG to inform him that this rejection "marked the end of the Group".
www.countryside-alliance.org
Conor O'Gorman
Well-Known Member
As regards muzzle loaders if they are using patch and ball on registered ranges, then they can continue with lead ammunition if the range complies with the correct risk management measures. If the barrel of the firearm is below the diameter of 6.17mm then they are excluded from restrictions for target and live quarry shooting. For shot, they will need to use alternatives to lead shot namely bismuth. We expect there to be development of shot cups allowing the use of other materials.
Rather than attempting to change the opinion of anyone entrenched in their views the forum serves to reflect shooters opinions on issues surrounding fieldsports.
When the official policy of BASC is to oppose further lead ammunition restrictions yet their representatives posts serve only to promote the case for a total lead ban then not drawing attention to this seemingly agenda driven rather than evidence based contradiction is not an option.
To date no explanation has been given as to why despite BASC opposing further lead ammunition restrictions this is not reflected in posts from BASC representatives who continue to make the case for accepting that the continuation of using lead ammunition is not defensible.
The fact remains that no scientific evidence is available that quantifies any ill due to the use of lead ammunition inland that would justify further legislation to cease its use as is accepted by BASC in its opposition to further lead ammunition restrictions..
If managing risk rather than eradicating it was the goal then the debate would be based on what shooting practices are the main source of that risk and how best those risks can be minimised.
As it stands the drive to eradicate lead ammunition use is being used by the anti fieldsports lobby as an attack on the continuation of live quarry shooting as a sport most likely prompted by the perceived excesses of commercialised shooting.
I’m sure there would be far fewer concerns regarding lead ammunition use if the reality was that game taken was divided amongst those involved in shooting on the day or distributed to friends all of whom I’m sure would remove the three or four pellets in the carcasses prior to cooking and in doing so minimise if not eradicate any source of concern.
Perhaps the continuation of quarry shooting for future generations as seems oft quoted in the occasional Shooting Times I read lies not in the eradication of the use of lead shot but the de commercialisation of quarry shooting to a sustainable level and a move towards greater numbers of small syndicate shoots which place more emphasis on the enjoyment of the day rather than the size of the bag.
By stating that the root of non acceptance of the case for accepting further lead ammunition restrictions is based on those dissenters never having shot any of the non lead options is a simplistic attempt to undermine any genuine concern regarding the contradictions surrounding the case for further legislation and to accept further lead ammunition restrictions only serves to strengthen the cause of the opponents of fieldsports .
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timbrayford
Well-Known Member
I agree, the BASC spokesman has made a very forceful and eloquent case, if you believe him, for a total ban. Why on earth if lead is so deadly to health and the environment can you then ask for this, that, and the other exemption?
Ok I have found out that there are 11 clay grounds where elite shooters can train for olympic disciplines until 2027 at the moment. There is possibly coming a rule change in olympic disciplines to allow other than lead shot.
But interestingly it looks like if I also want to use those olympic discipline facilities, I can also use lead shot. This only applies to the olympic trap and skeet ranges.
timbrayford
Well-Known Member
I'm not quite sure that an Olympic shooting discipline makes a jot of difference to the alleged toxicity issue, these proposals as a whole appear to be riddled with inconsistencies.
e.g. If the sale ,possession and storage of lead shot loaded cartridges is banned will that not prevent you from obtaining them to start with? If you do obtain them will not the burden of proof shift from innocent until proven guilty to an onus on you the clay shooter to prove that you intended to shoot a permitted discipline at an appropriate clay ground? If so how will you do so?
Its as well that we consider these issues now, the Voice of Shooting appears to have been struck dumb when you start to look at the lead projectile ban at a practical day to day level.
Utectok
Well-Known Member
Long time ago one of my kids friends came to tea, she was very fussy (and quite overweight) but her mum said delightedly that she now liked pasta. Fantastic I thought I’ll do my pasta bolognaise. She refused to eat it.
“What wrong with your dinner dear your mum said you liked pasta.”
She said “not that type it’s the wrong shape”
I’ll just leave that there
“What wrong with your dinner dear your mum said you liked pasta.”
She said “not that type it’s the wrong shape”
I’ll just leave that there
Spear Chucker
Well-Known Member
The whole thing is a stinking mess. If the Voice of Shooting management team could just join LACS / PETA and do for them what they have achieved for shooting, we'd be on a winner.
Smellydog
Well-Known Member
What utter tosh from the so called voice of shooting.
Can you name a muzzleloader with a barrel less than 6.17mm?
Let me answer for you, no, you bloody can't.
Yet again from the voice of no experience with muzzleloading shotguns he or they believe an alternative will work.
It doesn't.
For a start off most muzzleloader shotguns only generate around a 1000fps. Most have no choke. They are short range guns using shot and depends vastly on the weight of the shot per pellet.
You CAN NOT push shot from a muzzleloader quicker without ruining patterns due to the nature of the gasses produced.
Yet again a " I wash my hands in the matter approach".
I hope you have many a good day with your posh chums talking utter tosh amongst yourselves.
It's true what my old gamekeeper said about septic tanks....
timbrayford
Well-Known Member
I think that its become apparent that he's well out of his depth on this whole issue, BASC just doesn't seem to have thought things through.
Smellydog
Well-Known Member
But they will all be there this winter, at the top shoots in all their finest tweed laughing at how the minions pay for it all and comparing browned noses....
Hardly a fitting comparison really ?Long time ago one of my kids friends came to tea, she was very fussy (and quite overweight) but her mum said delightedly that she now liked pasta. Fantastic I thought I’ll do my pasta bolognaise. She refused to eat it.
“What wrong with your dinner dear your mum said you liked pasta.”
She said “not that type it’s the wrong shape”
I’ll just leave that there
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