Lead ammunition restrictions - government announcement

[Liveonce]

There is and will be lots of innovation going on, and now that it looks like there will definitely be a market new lead free products I see the likes of Hortonium having a bright future. They claim a product denser than lead and more affordable than bismuth. The even have developed 22 long rifle options that work. They might do shot that will work in 410’s, damascus barrels, muzzleloaders and those rifles that use unjacketed bullets.

Hortonium

Lead Free ammunition innovation

hortonium.net

not sure where you get the idea it is denser than lead they say

Hortonium is slightly lighter

only way to get denser than lead are tungsten, gold, platinum, and mercury, take your pick.

 

[monarman]

Disagreeing with the lead ban and drawing attention to the hypocrisy of supporting restrictions while at the same time supposedly fighting a lead ban does not mean that those expressing those concerns will be “packing it all in”. I think your hopes for a silver lining in “all the new land “ becoming available to you might just be wishful thinking. Are you not able to find sufficient ground to shoot over at present

Tongue in cheek quote.... as folk are getting their knickers in a twist about something that in the grand scheme of things is out of our hands and therefore chewing on about it is a pointless excercise.
Our main concern should be cracking on and managing deer.
All this BASC bashing and bitching on here is a total waste of time We've known for years that this was likely to happen and yet folk were too stuck in their ways to embrace the change voluntarily and now it's become a moan fest about it finally coming into fruition.

Accept that it's happening... work around/with it and crack on!...

Life is too short! And as we all know.. voicing an opinion doesn't change things.

 

[andyk]

So where has the bits from these bullets gone and what is the impact on human health if consumed.
View attachment 428166

I would expect the effect on health of the copper from those is similar to the effects of the copper in the jackets of the lead core bullets we currently use.

 

[timbrayford]

As for Hortonium? Well I've a mate in London got a bridge to sell. Anyone interested? Or, simply, it seems to have been all puff, all smoke, all flash and then? Nix, nada, zilch. I wish them all success but I wish they'd also hurry up!

Apparently they've relocated from Birmingham UK, to Detroit USA to set up a factory producing the stuff.....three or four years to supply the worldwide market seems a bit ambitious!

 

[enfieldspares]

I would expect the effect on health of the copper from those is similar to the effects of the copper in the jackets of the lead core bullets we currently use.

As the same maybe as the effect of the one or two or three pellets #4, #5, #6 and #7 lead shot found in the carcass of the bird on the health of those who currently consume lead shot feathered game in reasonable quantities? In fact in fifty years of eating pheasant I can't recall ever finding in the flesh three pellets and for sure never four...and I chew my meat well.

 

[timbrayford]

Tongue in cheek quote.... as folk are getting their knickers in a twist about something that in the grand scheme of things is out of our hands and therefore chewing on about it is a pointless excercise.
Our main concern should be cracking on and managing deer.
All this BASC bashing and bitching on here is a total waste of time We've known for years that this was likely to happen and yet folk were too stuck in their ways to embrace the change voluntarily and now it's become a moan fest about it finally coming into fruition.

Accept that it's happening... work around/with it and crack on!...

Life is too short! And as we all know.. voicing an opinion doesn't change things.

Absolutely not true, the issue has been the unavailability and lack of suitable alternatives. As for BASC I think that Swift's blog for WJ's Mark Avery tells you everything that you need to know!

 

[timbrayford]

not sure where you get the idea it is denser than lead they say

Hortonium is slightly lighter

only way to get denser than lead are tungsten, gold, platinum, and mercury, take your pick.

Its in the same ballpark as lead & bismuth, steel isn't!

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

Have you read what you've posted? I think the bashing on this occasion is WELL founded

No it's not well founded. And to put things in perspective the BASC bashing is by the same dozen, mostly ex-BASC members with entrenched views, out of over 30,000 SD members.

 

[Chris Richardson]

There is and will be lots of innovation going on, and now that it looks like there will definitely be a market new lead free products I see the likes of Hortonium having a bright future. They claim a product denser than lead and more affordable than bismuth. The even have developed 22 long rifle options that work. They might do shot that will work in 410’s, damascus barrels, muzzleloaders and those rifles that use unjacketed bullets.

Hortonium

Lead Free ammunition innovation

hortonium.net

They might not as well what then ? Any luck on that study ?

 

[Tim.243]

No it's not well founded. And to put things in perspective the BASC bashing is by the same dozen, mostly ex-BASC members with entrenched views, out of over 30,000 SD members.

SD has 36k so you could add that to membership in an instant!

 

[Smellydog]

No it's not well founded. And to put things in perspective the BASC bashing is by the same dozen, mostly ex-BASC members with entrenched views, out of over 30,000 SD members.

And most of them mute, that's handy hey Connor!

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

Its important to draw a distinction between "Official" positions of an organisation and that very position being undermined by senior officials and ex-senior officials of that organisation. e.g. Guest blog – Lead ammunition, the way forward by John Swift – Mark Avery

John retired from BASC in 2013 and is entitled to his personal opinions and perspective a decade later. The voluntary transition away from lead shot for live quarry shooting was announced in 2020. The government has announced it will ban lead shot for live quarry shooting in 2029. This obsession with John is bizarre and unhealthy.

 

[Liveonce]

Its in the same ballpark as lead & bismuth, steel isn't!

agree and it may find a market it game shooting just like bismuth is now, and tungsten based shot is by some wild fowlers but the price is prohibitive as a general replacement for lead only steel shot offers that.

 

[hendrix's rifle]

No it's not well founded. And to put things in perspective the BASC bashing is by the same dozen, mostly ex-BASC members with entrenched views, out of over 30,000 SD members.

Well from what you've said previously, BASC volunteered for a lead ban and stated its members agreed (which didn't happen), they've then decided to try and fight said ban after a complete 180. You've then welcomed the ban when its gone through?

I'm pretty sure the bashing is fair on those points alone.

There's certainly more than a dozen currently though isn't there and they/we are the ones who will actually engage on an open forum. There's plenty for and against that don't bother expressing their opinions for whatever reason it is. I don't see the 30k+ members congratulating BASC either?

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

And most of them mute, that's handy hey Connor!

The BASC bashing is by the same dozen, mostly ex-BASC members with entrenched views, out of over 30,000 SD members. As regards your comment that most SD members are mutes, perhaps consider that there might be more comments on threads like this were it not for your (and others) sometimes oppressive behaviour to anyone that has a different viewpoint to yourself on using non-lead ammunition or on policy developments on moving away from some uses of lead ammunition. You write some great stories about your outdoor adventures, and you may not intend to come across as oppressive when expressing your views on non-lead ammunition, but perhaps consider that others may feel intimidated by your (and others) reactions in threads such as this.

 

[Liveonce]

Tongue in cheek quote.... as folk are getting their knickers in a twist about something that in the grand scheme of things is out of our hands and therefore chewing on about it is a pointless excercise.
Our main concern should be cracking on and managing deer.
All this BASC bashing and bitching on here is a total waste of time We've known for years that this was likely to happen and yet folk were too stuck in their ways to embrace the change voluntarily and now it's become a moan fest about it finally coming into fruition.

Accept that it's happening... work around/with it and crack on!...

Life is too short! And as we all know.. voicing an opinion doesn't change things.

lot more to shooting sports than managing deer.

But yes what ever shooting we do we will move on, but ask yourself how will the youth past 2029 get into shooting other than airguns or possibly .22lr with no .410 or 28gauge to start shooting with.

try running a have ago at clay shooting with only 20ga and 12ga punchy steel shot cartridges with anybody or groups like the boy scouts or girl guides.

absolutely no need to ban lead shot on the tiny area of ground used by proper clay shooting grounds, virtually zero risk to the environment, but the hidden agenda the lead cartridges may still be used illegally for live quarry shooting.
ok to put a label on some rifle ammunition to say target use only but not on clay cartridges.
Then the hundreds of tonne of lead shot on such clay grounds will not just disappear, even if you can see it which is unlikely.

it’s a death to shooting by a thousand cuts.

 

[cookingfat]

Nothing much us general shooters can do about it except complain, we just have to suck it up and move on.

Been using copper in 243 and 3006 for some years and haven't had any problems.

As for using none lead in my shotguns I will just have to adjust which is a ball ache but as I said move on.

Many will know I use a shotgun for HAD work and dont fancy using steel as a replacement! H & S executive have said no to a dispensation for HAD work even with BASC backing for this.

 

[homer]

Well from what you've said previously, BASC volunteered for a lead ban and stated its members agreed (which didn't happen), they've then decided to try and fight said ban after a complete 180. You've then welcomed the ban when its gone through?

I'm pretty sure the bashing is fair on those points alone.

There's certainly more than a dozen currently though isn't there and they/we are the ones who will actually engage on an open forum. There's plenty for and against that don't bother expressing their opinions for whatever reason it is. I don't see the 30k+ members congratulating BASC either?

You could always run a poll to find out!

 

[hendrix's rifle]

You could always run a poll to find out!

Wayyyy to advanced for me but otherwise, good idea

 

[PeterHenry]

lot more to shooting sports than managing deer.

But yes what ever shooting we do we will move on, but ask yourself how will the youth past 2029 get into shooting other than airguns or possibly .22lr with no .410 or 28gauge to start shooting with.

try running a have ago at clay shooting with only 20ga and 12ga punchy steel shot cartridges with anybody or groups like the boy scouts or girl guides.

absolutely no need to ban lead shot on the tiny area of ground used by proper clay shooting grounds, virtually zero risk to the environment, but the hidden agenda the lead cartridges may still be used illegally for live quarry shooting.
ok to put a label on some rifle ammunition to say target use only but not on clay cartridges.
Then the hundreds of tonne of lead shot on such clay grounds will not just disappear, even if you can see it which is unlikely come 2029.

it’s a death to shooting by a thousand cuts.

Not all steel cartridges are a punchy - I've put steel 30g '5's through one of my AYA no2's during an afternoons decoying and they weren't bad on the shoulder - and I'm 5ft 6 and work behind a desk....