Lead ammunition restrictions - government announcement

[countrryboy]

Conor wasn't doing so though, he was asking the other member to explain why he was "bashing" BASC but not the NGO given they had similar approaches to lead ammo. Context is everything.

Fieldsports are weakly defended, I agree but this whole thread of mudslinging rather than perhaps suggesting any kind of better solution/argument to put forward clearly demonstrates the issue better.

Was their not quite a lot if backlash in the STs from some of the orgs claiming they had been mislead into signing it?

My understanding from the ST after the letter and it then turning out that the gun/ammo dealer manufacters hadnae actually been consulted as much ( or at all) as they made out.
Possibly they were trying to back track and save some of the wrath from their members.
But im sure i can mind some desperately trying to distance themselves from basc.

 

[Mickeydredd]

Was their not quite a lot if backlash in the STs from some of the orgs claiming they had been mislead into signing it?

My understanding from the ST after the letter and it then turning out that the gun/ammo dealer manufacters hadnae actually been consulted as much ( or at all) as they made out.
Possibly they were trying to back track and save some of the wrath from their members.
But im sure i can mind some desperately trying to distance themselves from basc.

Maybe an NGO member could post the NGO response to this week's news so we know their stance?

 

[Heym SR20]

I meant the whole copper, lead business. When did anyone die of a deer shot with a soft nose bullet?
Answer NEVER.

You 100% sure about that statement. You are probably correct that nobody dropped down dead immediately after eating lead contaminated venison.

But the science indicates that many may well have gone on to develop diseases that bring about an early death.

Take Acute Myeloid Leukaemia or Small Cell Lung Cancer. There is very strong evidence that patients with AML have higher normal levels of lead and other heavy metals such as cadmium in their blood and bones. AML is pretty much non survivable. New treatments involving removing the lead have been given orphan drug status and early trials are showing very positive outcomes with vast majority of patients recovering.

Studies on mice and rats have shown feeding them with lead leads to leukaemia and other cancers.

Other studies have demonstrated that lead interferes with the p53 proteins that are critical in your immune system, and this your ability to fight off disease. This is new work, some now published.

The first key papers were published in early 2020 in the American Journal of Haematology on work carried out the MD Cancer Clinic in Houston Texas, by Dr Mario Ohanian and her team.

So they are not saying that if you ingest lead you WILL get cancer, but if you do have many of the nasty cancers its highly likely that you have elevated levels of lead in the your system and it can only get there by ingesting it or breathed in through lead.

 

[Smellydog]

You 100% sure about that statement. You are probably correct that nobody dropped down dead immediately after eating lead contaminated venison.

But the science indicates that many may well have gone on to develop diseases that bring about an early death.

Take Acute Myeloid Leukaemia or Small Cell Lung Cancer. There is very strong evidence that patients with AML have higher normal levels of lead and other heavy metals such as cadmium in their blood and bones. AML is pretty much non survivable. New treatments involving removing the lead have been given orphan drug status and early trials are showing very positive outcomes with vast majority of patients recovering.

Studies on mice and rats have shown feeding them with lead leads to leukaemia and other cancers.

Other studies have demonstrated that lead interferes with the p53 proteins that are critical in your immune system, and this your ability to fight off disease. This is new work, some now published.

The first key papers were published in early 2020 in the American Journal of Haematology on work carried out the MD Cancer Clinic in Houston Texas, by Dr Mario Ohanian and her team.

So they are not saying that if you ingest lead you WILL get cancer, but if you do have many of the nasty cancers its highly likely that you have elevated levels of lead in the your system and it can only get there by ingesting it or breathed in through lead.

Only lead or other heavy metals?

You mentioned cadmium for example and then only repeatedly referred to lead.

 

[HonestJohn]

.

 

[Norfolk Deer Search]

You know what, you lot are worse than I ever was 5 years ago!

I think personally all discussions about lead and copper should be banned, same crap going over and over and over again.

Leave all the BS to the Face ache stalking groups, plenty of being posted on there too

 

[Smellydog]

You know what, you lot are worse than I ever was 5 years ago!

I think personally all discussions about lead and copper should be banned, same crap going over and over and over again.

Leave all the BS to the Face ache stalking groups, plenty of being posted on there too

I'm worried about my p53 proteins now, I'm going to be awake all day now...

 

[Chris Richardson]

You 100% sure about that statement. You are probably correct that nobody dropped down dead immediately after eating lead contaminated venison.

But the science indicates that many may well have gone on to develop diseases that bring about an early death.

Take Acute Myeloid Leukaemia or Small Cell Lung Cancer. There is very strong evidence that patients with AML have higher normal levels of lead and other heavy metals such as cadmium in their blood and bones. AML is pretty much non survivable. New treatments involving removing the lead have been given orphan drug status and early trials are showing very positive outcomes with vast majority of patients recovering.

Studies on mice and rats have shown feeding them with lead leads to leukaemia and other cancers.

Other studies have demonstrated that lead interferes with the p53 proteins that are critical in your immune system, and this your ability to fight off disease. This is new work, some now published.

The first key papers were published in early 2020 in the American Journal of Haematology on work carried out the MD Cancer Clinic in Houston Texas, by Dr Mario Ohanian and her team.

So they are not saying that if you ingest lead you WILL get cancer, but if you do have many of the nasty cancers its highly likely that you have elevated levels of lead in the your system and it can only get there by ingesting it or breathed in through lead.

Oooh on the subject have you found me a single study yet that shows eating lead shot game has caused illness in humans ? Must be 20 th time I’ve asked

 

[Tim.243]

You know what, you lot are worse than I ever was 5 years ago!

I think personally all discussions about lead and copper should be banned, same crap going over and over and over again.

Leave all the BS to the Face ache stalking groups, plenty of being posted on there too

4 years 245 days to be precise

 

[Norfolk Deer Search]

4 years 245 days to be precise

I’m gonna ring you later and there’s a lovely word with a capital C I’m going to call you

 

[Tim.243]

I’m gonna ring you later and there’s a lovely word with a capital C I’m going to call you

Bless...

 

[Greener Jim]

...with respect I shall tread how I like. Thank you.

Good old mock civility, common for your sort, is not something I wish to engage in.
Enjoy the melancholic rambling, but I shan't be indulging it. You certainly don't require anyone's help in that regard.

 

[enfieldspares]

Was their not quite a lot if backlash in the STs from some of the orgs claiming they had been mislead into signing it?

When I contacted SACS to ask about this they did indeed claim that they had been "led" into signing it by BASC. But "buyer's remorse" or not they did sign it. So it cost them my membership. Our sport has enough external enemies to not need its own internal actors pushing an agenda such as to be easily perceived to in fact be working against us.

 

[Liveonce]

We who currently shoot, whatever we shot with or participated in will continue to find a legal way after the
lead ban (like we did after the pistol ban). What is really concerning looks to be the fall in participation of shooting. Which can only rapidly escalate over the next ten years (and not all down to the lead ban).

in 2015 in E&W 582,000 firearms and shotgun certificates issued in 2025 just 483,000 so how many in 2035?

In 2025 Just 11.2% under the age of 34 and 69% 50 and over.

Now that really should be a concern for the shooting orgs.

Firearm and shotgun certificates, April 2024 to March 2025

www.gov.uk

 

[timbrayford]

Conor wasn't doing so though, he was asking the other member to explain why he was "bashing" BASC but not the NGO given they had similar approaches to lead ammo. Context is everything.

Fieldsports are weakly defended, I agree but this whole thread of mudslinging rather than perhaps suggesting any kind of better solution/argument to put forward clearly demonstrates the issue better.

Actually I wasn't going to re-enter this discussion but the context (in brief) is:-

John Swift in his capacity as CEO of BASC was appointed to the LAG, when he retired from BASC he apparently stayed on in a personal capacity when arguably another representative from our community should have taken his place.

As Conor says, John is entitled to a personal opinion.

The LAG split in essence along anti-pro shooting lines The Lead Ammunition Group - Game and Wildlife Conservation Trust , John Swift siding with the antis, and was rewarded with an honorary life membership of BASC.

No one from the NGO or any other of the shooting organisations conducted themselves in such a manner harmful and divisive to shooting interests and has a bearing on the situation in which we all now find ourselves.

Details on the Lead Ammunition Group here:- Membership of LAG – Lead Ammunition Group

 

[Mike L]

John Swift siding with the antis, and was rewarded with an honorary life membership of BASC.

Is there a link to this?

 

[Heym SR20]

Only lead or other heavy metals?

You mentioned cadmium for example and then only repeatedly referred to lead.

Other heavy metals as well. But lead is a major one, and is the one that is under the microscope of SD.

 

[homer]

You 100% sure about that statement. You are probably correct that nobody dropped down dead immediately after eating lead contaminated venison.

But the science indicates that many may well have gone on to develop diseases that bring about an early death.

Take Acute Myeloid Leukaemia or Small Cell Lung Cancer. There is very strong evidence that patients with AML have higher normal levels of lead and other heavy metals such as cadmium in their blood and bones. AML is pretty much non survivable. New treatments involving removing the lead have been given orphan drug status and early trials are showing very positive outcomes with vast majority of patients recovering.

Studies on mice and rats have shown feeding them with lead leads to leukaemia and other cancers.

Other studies have demonstrated that lead interferes with the p53 proteins that are critical in your immune system, and this your ability to fight off disease. This is new work, some now published.

The first key papers were published in early 2020 in the American Journal of Haematology on work carried out the MD Cancer Clinic in Houston Texas, by Dr Mario Ohanian and her team.

So they are not saying that if you ingest lead you WILL get cancer, but if you do have many of the nasty cancers its highly likely that you have elevated levels of lead in the your system and it can only get there by ingesting it or breathed in through lead.

Does drinking water from lead pipes add to this?

 

[Chris Richardson]

Other heavy metals as well. But lead is a major one, and is the one that is under the microscope of SD.

Any luck on finding me a study ?

 

[timbrayford]

Is there a link to this?

The composition of the LAG group is on this link , it shows it from 2010 when it was set up and subsequently after the divisive report Membership of LAG – Lead Ammunition Group
John Swift Honorary life membership, curiously no mention of his role on the LAG! BASC AGM report