Least convenient road side dispatch

[Heym SR20]

Most cars within their tool kit carry a wheel brace. These can make a very effective hammer if required.

There is a lot of discussion keeping knives in cars etc.

There is a lot confusion, not least because the law and guidance is not prescriptive. Pretty much any object can become an offensive weapon if used inappropriately.

If you turn to the Government’s interpretation of the Offensive Weapons Act 2019 and Amendments to earlier acts this offers no real clarity. There is no legal definition of a knife, so you are relying on the everyday definition of a knife. There are prohibited types of knife, but I doubt that of these would actually be of any use in our everyday business.

The consensus of the opinions is that it is down to the courts to decide if an object being used is an offensive weapon. So a kitchen knife becomes an offensive weapon if it is used to threaten or harm somebody, or is being carried with a view to doing so.

So me carrying my Mora knife whilst out stalking or driving to and fro, or the tools in my toolbox that are in the back of the car or on the boat are not offensive weapons.

But if I carry my Mora Knife into a crowded city centre bar and I got into an altercation, I think I would struggle to find a reasonable answer.

If I was wearing highland dress with a skinDhu in my sock and was attending a wedding then its cultural. But again if I got into an altercation….

Statutory guidance: Offensive Weapons Act 2019 (accessible)

www.gov.uk

 

[HonestJohn]

I carry a non folding knife, well two, in my car at all times. One is in my car tool kit as part of a service equipment setup. The other is in my backpack with all sorts of emergency gear, and I deem it as necessary survival tool in case of an environmental emergency or accident where seat belts need cutting and so on, also use the backpack as hiking equipment or when out stalking.

I’d be really happy to elaborate my reasons to any police force stopping and questioning me.

But as @finnbear270 says, your car is a private space, not public, so unless they have a reason to think a crime is being committed, they can’t legally search your car - and if they did against this law, any evidence would be dismissed in court

 

[VSS]

.

But as @finnbear270 says, your car is a private space, not public, so unless they have a reason to think a crime is being committed, they can’t legally search your car - and if they did against this law, any evidence would be dismissed in court

Not when it's in a public place it's not.

 

[HonestJohn]

Not when it's in a public place it's not.

So your car, inside, is a public space? Does that mean anyone can legally enter your car without permission?

 

[Jh1986]

Before I started stalking, my wife and I were driving through Ashdown Forest. Suddenly a Fallow Doe ran out and we hit it square on. Wife screaming in the passenger seat, so I tell her to calm down whilst I pull over and deal with it.

I pull over to the side of the road and get the speed bump rise and fall. Crap, didn't think of that. Poor thing.

We get out and her chest is still rising and falling. My wife starts screaming at me, "you've got to put it out of its misery". I've a breaker bar in the boot, but I won't be seen bludgeoning a deer with a breaker bar on the side of the road.

Luckily an Ashdown Ranger pulled up and got the rifle out.

I'm glad I know better now and am prepared for such a thing, living where we do.

 

[eggy74]

bit of rope

 

[VSS]

So your car, inside, is a public space? Does that mean anyone can legally enter your car without permission?

I believe this was tested in a court case. Someone had a knife in his car. Just an ordinary bloke with an ordinary knife, such as you or I or anyone might have in their car. For some reason the car was searched, the knife was found, and it was deemed that for the purpose of this legislation (ie, relating to knives) the car was a public place. He was successfully prosecuted

 

[HonestJohn]

I believe this was tested in a court case. Someone had a knife in his car. Just an ordinary bloke with an ordinary knife, such as you or I or anyone might have in their car. For some reason the car was searched, the knife was found, and it was deemed that for the purpose of this legislation (ie, relating to knives) the car was a public place. He was successfully prosecuted

I think the issue here is the person had a reason had a reason to have the car searched

 

[User00047]

Well I got pulled over on a Sunday morning for not wearing a seatbelt. The officer wanted to search my vehicle. I said go ahead. He found multiple knives, a machete, hammers, a chainsaw, a rifle and a shotgun.
He thought for a minute and just said “make sure you wear your seatbelt from now on”
And off I went. No problem at all. Didn’t even want to see a FAC.

 

[VSS]

I think the issue here is the person had a reason had a reason to have the car searched

I think it was more that he didn't have a reason to have a knife. And the fact it was in his car wasn't enough to prevent him being in possession of a knife in a public place.

 

[HonestJohn]

Well I got pulled over on a Sunday morning for not wearing a seatbelt. The officer wanted to search my vehicle. I said go ahead. He found multiple knives, a machete, hammers, a chainsaw, a rifle and a shotgun.
He thought for a minute and just said “make sure you wear your seatbelt from now on”
And off I went. No problem at all. Didn’t even want to see a FAC.

Sanity and rationality, thank god.

Wear your seatbelt though

 

[HonestJohn]

I think it was more that he didn't have a reason to have a knife. And the fact it was in his car wasn't enough to prevent him being in possession of a knife in a public place.

But the officer must have had a legal reason to search his car in the first place!

 

[VSS]

But the officer must have had a legal reason to search his car in the first place!

Whatever the reason is irrelevant. The point that's relevant to this discussion is that the knife was considered to be in a public place, despite it being in the glove box of his car.

 

[Heym SR20]

A lot will also depend on where you carry the knife. Is it in the boot along with other tools, kit etc. or do you have it on the dashboard as you go a collect money from your tenants?

If you want a safety knife in the car, a hook knife is probably a better option and better for cutting belts and webbing.

 

[HonestJohn]

A lot will also depend on where you carry the knife. Is it in the boot along with other tools, kit etc. or do you have it on the dashboard as you go a collect money from your tenants?

If you want a safety knife in the car, a hook knife is probably a better option and better for cutting belts and webbing.

Probably considered a zombie knife though

We live in a pathetic country where scum can walk away from any crime, and good well minded citizens get screwed for trying to do their best.

Shameful, but the world we live in.

 

[nun_hunter]

I carry a non folding knife, well two, in my car at all times. One is in my car tool kit as part of a service equipment setup. The other is in my backpack with all sorts of emergency gear, and I deem it as necessary survival tool in case of an environmental emergency or accident where seat belts need cutting and so on, also use the backpack as hiking equipment or when out stalking.

I’d be really happy to elaborate my reasons to any police force stopping and questioning me.

But as @finnbear270 says, your car is a private space, not public, so unless they have a reason to think a crime is being committed, they can’t legally search your car - and if they did against this law, any evidence would be dismissed in court

Under section 1 of PACE, a police constable may stop, detain, and search any person or vehicle in a public place, as long as the officer has ‘reasonable grounds’ for suspecting that they will find stolen or prohibited articles — such as drugs, a weapon, stolen property, prohibited fireworks, or something that could be used to commit a crime.

 

[patrickt]

I highly recommend you talk that through very carefully with a good legally trained person before risking a trial, if you are ever in such a situation. "Not in the public interest " is a big question mark . I do side with you that the CPS likely wont go for it , its just the stakes are high , it is possible to keep your FAC with a caution on record

I highly recommend you talk that through very carefully with a good legally trained person before risking a trial, if you are ever in such a situation. "Not in the public interest " is a big question mark . I do side with you that the CPS likely wont go for it , its just the stakes are high , it is possible to keep your FAC with a caution on record

Well I shall follow that advice the next time I look in my shaving mirror. I don't accept it would go to trial, there are several options to this senario


Patrick

 

[NBCCS]

Atlas joint - instant death

 

[VSS]

Atlas joint - instant death

Not an easy thing to do though, if the animal has antlers and is mobile, and if your knife isn't really up to the job. Not the sort of thing I'd want to attempt using something like an EDC folding pocket knife. Personally, I always carry a knife that's perfectly capable of the job, but it's not legal for EDC, and not everyone is prepared to take that risk.

 

[Pete6.5]

A hammer or wheel brace is the tool for the job. Forget about all this knife rubbish