Legal to hunt with a catapult, but not a bow

Jax

Well-Known Member
I’m reluctant to go out stalking, even though I could justify at this point in time. I’m not stalking so I’m binging on YouTube. I’m coming across more and more videos of catapult hunters shooting game and vermin with a catapult in the U.K.

How can it be legal to hunt with a catapult and ball bearing, but not a bow?
 
my dad hunted with a catapult 60 years ago nothing new only then he was poaching in them days was a serious offence not like today.
 
I don't think it's expressly 'legal', as opposed to not being prohibited by law, with all the usual caveats as to intent to cause injury or damage, etc. I do, however, believe it's illegal to use pebbles as ammunition, as that's expressly covered under 'stoning an animal to death' in the Wild Mammals Protection Act 1966.

What's really daft though, is that you can walk around with a handful of ball bearings and a Black Widow while completely within the law, but if you were to be caught anywhere having accidentally forgotten to remove your knife from your pocket you're immediately guilty of a strict liability offence . . . . .
 
I don't think it's expressly 'legal', as opposed to not being prohibited by law, with all the usual caveats as to intent to cause injury or damage, etc. I do, however, believe it's illegal to use pebbles as ammunition, as that's expressly covered under 'stoning an animal to death' in the Wild Mammals Protection Act 1966.

What's really daft though, is that you can walk around with a handful of ball bearings and a Black Widow while completely within the law, but if you were to be caught anywhere having accidentally forgotten to remove your knife from your pocket you're immediately guilty of a strict liability offence . . . . .

English law makes no sense and has been built up over the years on knee jerk reactions by politicians. And there are far too many laws. So for example all the knife laws came in as a result of kids running around with knifes and stabbing each other. There is a perfectly good laws Murder, Manslaughter, Gross Bodily Harm and Assault which cover both intent as well actually committing. These would actually cover pretty much all of the offences intended and or committed, and proper policing and education would cover the rest. And I deliberately use policing and education in the same sentence, as a large part of policing should be about nipping crime in the bud.

But there is a media outcry etc etc etc and rather than actually adressing the real problem of kids growing up without any life prospects other than joining a gang, it is so much easier to satisfy voters but passing a law that knife blade which doesn't lock and is less than 3" long is perfectly safe and legal, yet a 1" blade which locks is deadly. Such laws have zero effect on the perpetrators, yet have major consequences for everybody else. And it allows the Police yet more powers to arrest and prosecute so that the crime solved numbers look a hell of a lot better.

Rather than judging police on numbers of crime solved, prosecuted and won through the courts, the real measure should be how few crimes actually need investigating. A really good police force should have plenty of time on its hands.

As regards an object used in a threatening behaviour, to be honest there are plenty of tools that can be used in addition to your hands and teeth to threatening or cause harm etc. You could ban cotton wool because you could stuff that up somebodies nose and mouth, and as has been shown on numerous occassions a car, truck or aeroplane makes a lethal weapon.

Coming back to hunting tools - of course a bow or catapult is perfectly capable of humanely killing animals and birds, if used by hunters skilled in their use. A catapult has probably similar energy levels to an air rifle, but takes longer to master the skills to use it, and because the ball doesn't usually penetrate it's really only useful on smaller animals / birds. For big animals, you are talking a between the eyes hit and stunning the animal. And a decent bow, whether it be an old English Long Bow or a modern compound bow is perfectly capable of killing a large animal at considerable range, and if you put the arrow in the kill zone, severing the major arteries it will be dead very quickly. Put a 300 Ultra huge velocity magnum with a super deadly bullet through the guts of any deer - it will run off and die a slow death.

One day there does need to be a complete revision of our somewhat archaic hunting, firearms and licencing legislation as it really is not fit for purpose. In most other countries the focus is the on the individual and whether or not they have the right aptitude or skills, with need to acquire a hunting licence which then allows you to possess and use the tools as appropriate.

Personally I think Bows, or even cross bows would be a very useful tool in armoury for deer management, especially in the more densely populated areas as it is silent, and whilst deadly out 50 / 75 yards, an arrow runs out of steam pretty quickly thereafter. But it, as always, it is down to the individual behind the weapon to ensure a clean humane kill - no different in using a bow at 25 yards or 75 yards, to a rifle being used at 50 or 300 plus yards.
 
I cannot fathom the level of idiocy and contempt for society that would give any person the idea to aim a catapult, or anything else for that matter, at anyone! I honestly believe that anyone doing such a thing should be considered fair game if caught, and that the punishment should fit the crime. I certainly know if I ever caught someone doing such a thing it would take them some time to be able to stand back up straight . . . . .
 
Do the general licences not have something to say about it, I thought catapults could only legally be used on pests like squirrel, rats and rabbits, not on wild birds or game.
 
English law makes no sense and has been built up over the years on knee jerk reactions by politicians. And there are far too many laws. So for example all the knife laws came in as a result of kids running around with knifes and stabbing each other. There is a perfectly good laws Murder, Manslaughter, Gross Bodily Harm and Assault which cover both intent as well actually committing. These would actually cover pretty much all of the offences intended and or committed, and proper policing and education would cover the rest. And I deliberately use policing and education in the same sentence, as a large part of policing should be about nipping crime in the bud.

But there is a media outcry etc etc etc and rather than actually adressing the real problem of kids growing up without any life prospects other than joining a gang, it is so much easier to satisfy voters but passing a law that knife blade which doesn't lock and is less than 3" long is perfectly safe and legal, yet a 1" blade which locks is deadly. Such laws have zero effect on the perpetrators, yet have major consequences for everybody else. And it allows the Police yet more powers to arrest and prosecute so that the crime solved numbers look a hell of a lot better.

Rather than judging police on numbers of crime solved, prosecuted and won through the courts, the real measure should be how few crimes actually need investigating. A really good police force should have plenty of time on its hands.

As regards an object used in a threatening behaviour, to be honest there are plenty of tools that can be used in addition to your hands and teeth to threatening or cause harm etc. You could ban cotton wool because you could stuff that up somebodies nose and mouth, and as has been shown on numerous occassions a car, truck or aeroplane makes a lethal weapon.

Coming back to hunting tools - of course a bow or catapult is perfectly capable of humanely killing animals and birds, if used by hunters skilled in their use. A catapult has probably similar energy levels to an air rifle, but takes longer to master the skills to use it, and because the ball doesn't usually penetrate it's really only useful on smaller animals / birds. For big animals, you are talking a between the eyes hit and stunning the animal. And a decent bow, whether it be an old English Long Bow or a modern compound bow is perfectly capable of killing a large animal at considerable range, and if you put the arrow in the kill zone, severing the major arteries it will be dead very quickly. Put a 300 Ultra huge velocity magnum with a super deadly bullet through the guts of any deer - it will run off and die a slow death.

One day there does need to be a complete revision of our somewhat archaic hunting, firearms and licencing legislation as it really is not fit for purpose. In most other countries the focus is the on the individual and whether or not they have the right aptitude or skills, with need to acquire a hunting licence which then allows you to possess and use the tools as appropriate.

Personally I think Bows, or even cross bows would be a very useful tool in armoury for deer management, especially in the more densely populated areas as it is silent, and whilst deadly out 50 / 75 yards, an arrow runs out of steam pretty quickly thereafter. But it, as always, it is down to the individual behind the weapon to ensure a clean humane kill - no different in using a bow at 25 yards or 75 yards, to a rifle being used at 50 or 300 plus yards.
Other than the dreaded B word subject there's much you and I agree on Heym :)
 
Do the general licences not have something to say about it, I thought catapults could only legally be used on pests like squirrel, rats and rabbits, not on wild birds or game.

And herei lies the fundamental issue with our legislation. What you can and cannot do is spread across so many different bits of legislation, directives, licences etc. So for example the Deer Act Scotland gives no detail on weapons can and cannot be used, but it allows the Secretary of State to impose conditions. General licences are yet another work around etc etc etc
 
It is the nature of law making to be reactive. That is to say that laws are introduced with the intent of preventing something that has just happened, from happening again. There simply isn't Parliamentary time to draft laws such as the 'Robbing a zoo, on a Sunday, using a hot air balloon' Act 2021. Until of course someone robs a zoo with a hot air balloon. Restrictions on bows were brought in as a reaction. The same with knives, firearms, crossbows, pointy sticks and so on. Until there is some case of significant merit involving a catapult or a socket set, swingball bat etc, there won't be any specific prohibition. So as already said, it's not expressly legal to 'hunt' with a catapult, it's simply not been prohibited yet.

Laws (Acts) are generally very prescriptive and fairly high level. They're seldom seen fitting every situation and there's more energy used in discussing what they don't fit than what they do.
Regulation is far broader and open to some interpretation and flexibility of approach. But people spend more time trying to find ways to wriggle around them than understanding what they actually allow us to do.

You do need a blend of both though. Acts can only be changed through the whole Parliamentary systems, whereas regs and other guidance can be changed much more easily. Acts set the framework and regulations give the meat on the bones. In theory!

I do see people get dreadfully confused though on what is a law, a regulation, guidance etc. Generally speaking the law isn't that unclear; it's just that people don't really understand the spirit and intent of what it's there for. This is really unfortunate when it's those charged with enforcing the requirements who understand them the least. Ho hum. Even worse when the law has been drawn up by someone who thinks they know better. Ahh...And then there the old elephant in the room that says laws only govern the law abiding.
 
We started hunting with catapults with only moderate success, then bow and arrow. We were allowed to buy a gun at age 15, ( .410).
Then there was no stopping us.
Proper hunting with bows was taken away by stealth without any real protest until it was too late.
 
And herei lies the fundamental issue with our legislation. What you can and cannot do is spread across so many different bits of legislation, directives, licences etc. So for example the Deer Act Scotland gives no detail on weapons can and cannot be used, but it allows the Secretary of State to impose conditions. General licences are yet another work around etc etc etc
Indeed Just like the legislation around firearms, also spread across so many different bits of legislation and keeps on growing if the police/HO get their way.
 
There will be, within twenty years a total ban. Be careful what you wish for.
There won’t be a total ban, even the greenest of green creature whisperers will concede that there needs to be some lethal control of some species, but there will definitely be far fewer people authorised to have firearms and how and where they can use them will be strictly interpreted with zero tolerance for failure to comply.
 
Same reason you can own a .44 muzzle loading revolver or a box fed 12 bore semi auto assault shotgun but can’t own a single shot .22 rim fire target pistol

Cause politicians are ****s
 
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