Level 2

[ross]

Hi

I am thinking about doing my level 2 dmq I have passed level 1 I have a couple of questions 're level 2

Do any members who are accredited witnesses do a days training out in the field
Teaching/training before I start my level 2 so any mistakes don't count against me

Also do I need to apply for my fac before I can apply and start my level 2 or can I use the witness who accompanys me rifle on my 3 stalks

I'd be looking for someone in the perthshire Angus areas to go out with

Many Thanks

Ross

 

[Mike L]

Should you not have a certain amount of lone stalking under your belt before even thinking of level 2?, I thought that it was for an AW to accompany YOU on 3 stalks and witness your skills in stalking shooting and the gralloch. Not to teach or give advice on anything.

 

[sauer]

If you haven’t got an FAC don’t think about level 2 .

Go get experience under your belt before you go for level2

Don’t take this the wrong way ... everyone starts somewhere .... but level2 is meant to show a certain gained experience or “level”

You need to go and learn to get that experience required ...& if that means maki g an odd mistake or two .... well that’s when you learn.... guy that says he’s never made a mistake has learned sod all .


Paul

 

[palmer_mike]

Question 1, yes some offer a pre-DSC2 training
Question 2, yes you can do DSC2 using an estate rifle

 

[ross]

I have stalked in the past gave up fac etc while having family and work etc now looking to get back into stalking etc

And I'm not looking to be trained while doing my level 2 I'm just looking for some info 're level two and maybe someone can take me out show me all the things the witness will be looking for when time comes to do dmq level 2

 

[Essex stalker]

Not sure if they still do but BASC used to do an intermediate level course which was supposed to help you judge whether you was ready for DSC2. I did it many years ago with Andy Papworth, found it very enjoyable. You went out shot a deer and was given feedback and advice on different techniques etc.
It always good to see how others do things

 

[ross]

I have done meat hygiene cert large small
Dmq 1
Gasing cert
Snaring cert
Etc and everyone of them no matter how much experience I had I tried to do me homework on them or get out get hands on and learn from guys who have done it so I no what to expect and doing my level 2 will be no different your never to old to learn something new

 

[CarlW]

It is a shame to turn L2 into a box-ticking, certificate-gaining exercise. It is supposed to be so much more than that, allowing the candidate the opportunity to evidence their experience and competence to a fellow stalker.

I would get your FAC, get out stalking, rebuild your skills, and then think about Level 2.

Kind regards,

Carl

 

[ross]

Cheers for all info and replies as I said I'm just trying to find out as much as possible about the level 2 and what s needed to pass it

 

[TH4]

The best way to find out is to book a day with a stalker that is an AW and let him observe what you do and tell you if there are any areas you need to be more proficient in.

 

[ross]

Cheers will look in to that

 

[willie_gunn]

Cheers for all info and replies as I said I'm just trying to find out as much as possible about the level 2 and what s needed to pass it

Ross

When you register for Level 2 the Assessment Center will send you a list of AW's, so you could call a few of them and have a chat through what they expect to be required. The downside of that, of course, is that you first have to register.

Before then there is quite a lot of information on DMQ's website (DSC2 – Deer Management Qualification). Have a look on there, and for example study the documents you can download both as a Candidate and as an AW. Then familiarise yourself thoroughly with the Best Practice guides. Above all remember that there is nothing mythical about DSC2, AW's or Assessors. DSC2 is not a test - it is an opportunity for you to show that you have understood and can follow and demonstrate Best Practice. Do that, and you'll have no problems.

To generalise, and don't shoot me down because I am sure others see things differently, I find that candidates are mostly lacking confidence when it comes to what happens after the shot - carcass inspection, gralloching, knowing what to look for (and where) on both the gralloch and the carcass itself (think pests, diseases and lymph nodes), moving the animal to the larder, lardering, putting into the food chain, etc. This is hardly a surprise, as most recreational stalkers spend way more time analysing and discussing what happens up to the point of taking the shot - rifles and other kit, optics, ballistics, spotting deer, etc. - than they do on what happens after! The challenge with DSC2 is that you are going to be witnessed on the whole process from beginning to end.

My recommendation would be to spend lots of time on gralloching - following the Best Practice guide - and talk yourself through a checklist made beforehand of the process you should follow. Talk it through out loud and memorise it so it becomes second nature. This gets you into the habit of what to do.

Then find a friendly witness to take you out on an unwitnessed stalk, giving you constructive feedback afterwards. They should be able to let you know if you're ready for witnessed stalks or if there are areas you might want to improve upon.

If you just want to have a chat through things then drop me a PM - I am unfortunately nowhere near Angus but I'd be more than happy to talk you through what an AW (or at least what this AW) might be looking for.

Most of all, well done for considering DSC2 and I hope you enjoy it and find it useful if you decide to go for it.

 

[ross]

Cheers Willie appreciate the post
Would say I'm quietly confident when stalking but definitely rusty been a while
Confident with pulling trigger and shot placement and with gralloch but do need to learn more 're lymph nodes etc and the larder side of things

Ross

 

[finnbear270]

The best way to find out is to book a day with a stalker that is an AW and let him observe what you do and tell you if there are any areas you need to be more proficient in.

This.

 

[EMcC]

When I was an AW after making contact and 'grilling' the prospective candidate over the 'phone to get an idea of whether I was wasting my or the candidates time, was as follows.
On meeting the candidate I used to say lets pretend we are old friends from some time ago and I've taken up Golf (god forbid) and when I ask you what you do, you tell me you have taken up stalking.
I say Wow! what does that entail ?
So they take me out and as I don't know anything about it, I observe their actions and ask them all sorts of questions relevant to the L2 and we take it from there.
I found that it used to relax the candidate and made it feel a bit more friendly.

 

[sikamalc]

Ok I think what you are trying to do is maybe jump the gun slightly, but apologise if I have this wrong.

Level 2 is based on your experience in the field and larder to a standard that is deemed professional enough to pass the Level 2 criteria. You can choose any AW (approved witness ) from the list supplied when you register for the course. This may be on your own ground or the ground leased/owned by the AW.

On registering you will be given an Assessor's name and Email address. It is wise to contact them for a brief chat in my opinion. It is up to you to pick the AW to go with. Before you undertake Level 2 you should be reasonably proficient in spotting the right deer, stalking the right deer, culling the right deer, extracting the right deer, lardering the right deer, and presenting the carcass into the food chain so it is fit for consumption.

During this time the AW will ask you certain questions, and also run a scenario past you with regards to wounding and following up a deer, shot placement and blood spooring signs. All of this you should have reasonable knowledge of.

One of the questions I would ask is. Ok you have stalked and hit a Fallow doe, the animal reacted to the shot by flinching, and did not drop to the shot. You approach the shot site and there is no blood and little hair. After a few yards you see a blood trail of dark red sticky blood fairly high up on the grass. Where do you think you have hit the animal?...………………………………….. Answer???

You have 3 ICR (Individual cull records) to undertake in 3 years. You may shoot from a high seat, but this will only be a partial sign off as you did not stalk the deer. You can then stalk another deer at another time, and then complete the ICR.

So it is not a paper exercise, it is based on your knowledge and skill as a stalker. Many AW's undertake paid stalking and you can ask them to treat it as a Level 2 and advise on your being suitable to maybe go for Level 2. I offer advice and help to all my candidates, but I am a long way south of you.

All Level 2's are now on line, there are very few if no paper ones left to my knowledge. Each record is sent off straight away to your assessor by the AW. You must then fill in and send you sequence of events on the stalk to the Assessor.

The Assessor will contact the AW and discuss your suitability, they will also call you as well. Your portfolio is then sent to an internal verifier and if you have done the job well you should pass.

I hope this gives you some idea of what is involved.

 

[ross]

Thanks again for all the replies and am trying my best to take it all on board yes I still have a lot to learn especially on the ordering side and deer biology side and to try to answer your question 're a deer being shot and the blood on grass I would go for the shot hitting the deers liver with the dark blood and if it had been a more pinky colour I would say kidneys

 

[sikamalc]

Correct liver. Sometimes you may see some green tinge to it
Pink and slightly frothy is lung shot. In both instances the deer will be dead. If it's a sika stag or even a hind it may have made a few more yards then you'd expect.

 

[willie_gunn]

These days the number of questions an AW will ask a Candidate has been minimised, with much more questioning being done by the Assessor. This is a major change from how things were done previously. So, for example, questions around dispatching wounded deer, lymph node identification, identification of carcass abnormalities, carcass handling and lardering are now done by Assessor questioning if not observed in the field.

The only PC where discussion is permissible is 1.2 "Determine the cull animal required."

This is why I strongly recommend Candidates download the AW's briefing documents on the DMQ website, as they can then identify where they are likely to face questions from the Assessor.

The move to ePortfolios has reduced the workload on AW's whilst increasing it on Assessors.

 

[sikamalc]

Trouble is some of the Assesors are probably less experienced than some of the full time Deer stalkers who are AW's. I know that comment will ruffle some feathers, but I don't really care