Yeah, the one I shot was lovely, I am just impatient once I get an idea in my head, would be nice to have it sorted and set up for the start of the next fallow buck season too (August). In reality I have plenty of other bits and bobs to keep me going.
Lever action
- Thread starter SimpleSimon
- Start date
Sounds like I'd better find the back of that queue and join it!
drone
Well-Known Member
I'd an itch for win 94 in 30/30 after a abortive time with a 94 AE in 357 mag I picked up the cheapest pre 64 94 I could get (£200) and after a bit of fettling to eradicate feeding problems due to a very worn carrier spring it's 100% reliable. The spring was about £25 from homestead parts in arizona, postage was the same and there was no duty.
I've started using cast bullets and it really shines with those. Surprisingly every gun shop down in the SE seems to stock a variety of ammo, I've bought speer, winchester, federal and hornady and I'm really pleased with it so much so I've just ordered a rossi r92 in 357 mag which I should be picking up next week.
I've no longer any desire to go hunting and just use it for plinking and range work.
Don't let anyone tell you it's light recoiling, with 170 grain federal my little 6 pound carbine is much more spiteful than my 308.
A small tip, I fitted williams peep sights on both my winchesters, they are rubbish, made from soft alloy and the slightest knock bends them. I fitted a vortex venom red dot, cost more than the gun, the adaptor I got from reddotmate.com for £18 including postage. So quick to swing on target.
I've started using cast bullets and it really shines with those. Surprisingly every gun shop down in the SE seems to stock a variety of ammo, I've bought speer, winchester, federal and hornady and I'm really pleased with it so much so I've just ordered a rossi r92 in 357 mag which I should be picking up next week.
I've no longer any desire to go hunting and just use it for plinking and range work.
Don't let anyone tell you it's light recoiling, with 170 grain federal my little 6 pound carbine is much more spiteful than my 308.
A small tip, I fitted williams peep sights on both my winchesters, they are rubbish, made from soft alloy and the slightest knock bends them. I fitted a vortex venom red dot, cost more than the gun, the adaptor I got from reddotmate.com for £18 including postage. So quick to swing on target.
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I wouldn't rule out reloading totally, but I'll be happier knowing I can get appropriate factory ammo easily enough. Seems even with pricey ammo I'd have to get through a lot before reloading kit would pay for itself...
aboynamedjim
Well-Known Member
Could you recommend gunshops in the south east for 30.30 ammo? Much appreciated
You're the first to comment here with a red dot. You're happy with the Vortex?
I can shoot my wife's red-dotted 22 with both eyes open, but to use a shotgun or a conventional scope I have to close my left eye.
drone
Well-Known Member
SS, Given I suffer with astigmatism, which I didn't find out until I used the blessed thing, I think the vortex is the best thing since sliced bread.
It's early days yet but the sight comes with a lifetime warranty including breakages so I'll have to see if that pans out.
The way my eye reacts to the red dot is it becomes an elongated oval of, probably, 5 moa or so of windage, I centralise it on the target and then adjust the sight to bring the group to point of aim at 100 yards, nothing unusual there then. Group sizes aren't either remarkably large or small, adequate for minute of fox I should imagine.
Jim, regard to ammo, as it is a very fluid situation as all should be aware I'd rather not splatter the shops over the web. They do sell fast though so you need to do your legwork on the phone to the various gunshops, when you do find some get it before it's gone. Apologies for being cagey it's purely down to selfishness.
I'm a fan of ppu ammo in 223 and they make 30/30 that is the cheapest I've seen, around £20 a box, not much more than unfired brass.
I have about 200 factory loads in the safe and rely on reloading to keep me topped up but even ready made cast boolits are getting hard to come by and I've had to resort to making my own.
I think refilling large rifle primers is my next project if availability is anything to go by.
The loads I'll mention now are safe in my gun but will probably blow yours up if you get my drift, use at your own risk. You SHOULD use a reloading manual and pay very close attention to the pressures that are indicated therein, my gun is 65 years old and they are all entitled to a little respect in this regard. I don't full length resize, just adjust the die to squeeze the neck to within a millimetre of the bottom of the bottleneck so the case remains chamber sized.
At present I'm using 120 grn 32 pistol pure lead resized to 309 with 8 grns of 2400 behind them, ok out to about 100 yards but susceptible to wind as they are barely doing 900 fps at the muzzle (I think they have a similar trajectory to a BSA Airsporter 22), I have 165 grn flat points that are plain based but I acquired some oversized gas checks to squeeze onto them, 16.5 grns of 2400 gives about 1600 fps, I also have 170 grn fp gas checked with the same amount of 2400 give around 1500 fps. I now have two moulds, one is a 2 cavity throwing 170 grn fp ready for gas checks which I am gong to powder coat the other is a 6 cavity 303 mold that I have adapted to make flat points of around 150 grns and these will get gas checks as well as powder coating and probably require the same amount of 2400 to propel them after resizing down to 309"
I managed to buy a few hundred speer 100 grn 1/2 jacketed plinkers and they seem to like full loads of RL7. I also managed to get a couple of hundred old stock Sierra 150 grn FPs which I'll get round to working up a load for but CFE223 seems to do the trick with the few I've loaded so far.
Finally I have several hundred soft point bt bullets left over from my 308 which I plan to use when all else is consumed as I only have about 35 pound of lead left enough for about 800 boolits.
I don't know what expectations are with regard accuracy, I've seen so many targets that used bs as a propellant but at nearly 80 years of age, weakening eyesight with the red dot I'm very happy to get 5 shots into 3 - 5 inches at 100 yards, very much wind dependent, except for the hornady 160 ftx which suit the gun down to the ground and manage better than 3". As I said, about minute of fox and should be good enough to scare the crap out of a rabbit.
It's early days yet but the sight comes with a lifetime warranty including breakages so I'll have to see if that pans out.
The way my eye reacts to the red dot is it becomes an elongated oval of, probably, 5 moa or so of windage, I centralise it on the target and then adjust the sight to bring the group to point of aim at 100 yards, nothing unusual there then. Group sizes aren't either remarkably large or small, adequate for minute of fox I should imagine.
Jim, regard to ammo, as it is a very fluid situation as all should be aware I'd rather not splatter the shops over the web. They do sell fast though so you need to do your legwork on the phone to the various gunshops, when you do find some get it before it's gone. Apologies for being cagey it's purely down to selfishness.
I'm a fan of ppu ammo in 223 and they make 30/30 that is the cheapest I've seen, around £20 a box, not much more than unfired brass.
I have about 200 factory loads in the safe and rely on reloading to keep me topped up but even ready made cast boolits are getting hard to come by and I've had to resort to making my own.
I think refilling large rifle primers is my next project if availability is anything to go by.
The loads I'll mention now are safe in my gun but will probably blow yours up if you get my drift, use at your own risk. You SHOULD use a reloading manual and pay very close attention to the pressures that are indicated therein, my gun is 65 years old and they are all entitled to a little respect in this regard. I don't full length resize, just adjust the die to squeeze the neck to within a millimetre of the bottom of the bottleneck so the case remains chamber sized.
At present I'm using 120 grn 32 pistol pure lead resized to 309 with 8 grns of 2400 behind them, ok out to about 100 yards but susceptible to wind as they are barely doing 900 fps at the muzzle (I think they have a similar trajectory to a BSA Airsporter 22), I have 165 grn flat points that are plain based but I acquired some oversized gas checks to squeeze onto them, 16.5 grns of 2400 gives about 1600 fps, I also have 170 grn fp gas checked with the same amount of 2400 give around 1500 fps. I now have two moulds, one is a 2 cavity throwing 170 grn fp ready for gas checks which I am gong to powder coat the other is a 6 cavity 303 mold that I have adapted to make flat points of around 150 grns and these will get gas checks as well as powder coating and probably require the same amount of 2400 to propel them after resizing down to 309"
I managed to buy a few hundred speer 100 grn 1/2 jacketed plinkers and they seem to like full loads of RL7. I also managed to get a couple of hundred old stock Sierra 150 grn FPs which I'll get round to working up a load for but CFE223 seems to do the trick with the few I've loaded so far.
Finally I have several hundred soft point bt bullets left over from my 308 which I plan to use when all else is consumed as I only have about 35 pound of lead left enough for about 800 boolits.
I don't know what expectations are with regard accuracy, I've seen so many targets that used bs as a propellant but at nearly 80 years of age, weakening eyesight with the red dot I'm very happy to get 5 shots into 3 - 5 inches at 100 yards, very much wind dependent, except for the hornady 160 ftx which suit the gun down to the ground and manage better than 3". As I said, about minute of fox and should be good enough to scare the crap out of a rabbit.
xavierdoc
Well-Known Member
You can reach Scottish legal velocities with 45-70 using lighter bullets (NB. Home loading with 24" barrel):
I don't hunt in Scotland so don't need to chase the numbers, preferring heavy and slow(ish), as the God of 45-70s intended.
I can't complain about accuracy from my Marlin GSBL. It won't rival my bolt actions but plenty good enough for deer at the ranges I hunt:
After more than three shots it starts to heat up and wanders a bit:
My GSBL has a 1-6x scope, which works well for me:
Great little rifle:
I don't hunt in Scotland so don't need to chase the numbers, preferring heavy and slow(ish), as the God of 45-70s intended.
I can't complain about accuracy from my Marlin GSBL. It won't rival my bolt actions but plenty good enough for deer at the ranges I hunt:
After more than three shots it starts to heat up and wanders a bit:
My GSBL has a 1-6x scope, which works well for me:
Great little rifle:
Smellydog
Well-Known Member
I've shot 444. 45-70 but have consistently come back to 30-30. Four rifles. Three Winchester and one Marlin.
It's just the right balance in my opinion.
I've had new and old. Scoped and not.
Every one of them got the job done.
Smellydog
Well-Known Member
Right, I had 7rds of ammo I did not want to shoot at deer again, bullet to tough so in the interest of this thread I went target shooting.
Now, there are some caveats!
I hate shooting at paper, never have liked it.
My eyes are knackered, especially my right eye I shoot with and last of all I hate shooting at paper!
Now if you want to skip the two targets and jump to the 150 paces target make sure you are sitting! My legs nearly went from under me when I saw it! It's the best group I've ever shot on open sights! Oh and 150 good paces, not Zimmer frame steps!
First off I shot a small game load of 8.5gn of Herco and a Speer 100 gn plinker.
Shot a single round at 20, 30, 40&50 paces.
Just aiming for centre.
Next is the 100 paces and it went tits up.
I got two together and then dropped one
.
The hole by the hammer was a 150 paces shot. It's a poor target and it was partly obscured by the crop. That's my excuse anyway.
So with little confidence I put the next card up where I could see the dam thing and went back 150.
Loaded the last three rounds and did my level best.
Wow, I knew they felt good but wow
.
So can leverguns shoot on opens? Yes, yes they can. Even for the visually impaired!
Sorry I just edited the last photo, I'd put the wrong one up.
Now, there are some caveats!
I hate shooting at paper, never have liked it.
My eyes are knackered, especially my right eye I shoot with and last of all I hate shooting at paper!
Now if you want to skip the two targets and jump to the 150 paces target make sure you are sitting! My legs nearly went from under me when I saw it! It's the best group I've ever shot on open sights! Oh and 150 good paces, not Zimmer frame steps!
First off I shot a small game load of 8.5gn of Herco and a Speer 100 gn plinker.
Shot a single round at 20, 30, 40&50 paces.
Just aiming for centre.
Next is the 100 paces and it went tits up.
I got two together and then dropped one
.The hole by the hammer was a 150 paces shot. It's a poor target and it was partly obscured by the crop. That's my excuse anyway.
So with little confidence I put the next card up where I could see the dam thing and went back 150.
Loaded the last three rounds and did my level best.
Wow, I knew they felt good but wow
.So can leverguns shoot on opens? Yes, yes they can. Even for the visually impaired!
Sorry I just edited the last photo, I'd put the wrong one up.
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Smellydog
Well-Known Member
Lol, I did know but can't remember
.it was ordered for someone in the nineties so the story goes and it slept in a shop for decades!alberta boy
Well-Known Member
Not to stir the pot , but a Remlin in the hand beats two Ruglins in the Bush . I've owned a few Remlins , I'd definitely buy another .
AB
LeftHandGuy
Well-Known Member
The real bonus with reloading is that you can get what you cannot actually buy. Like my old BSA "Cadet" in 32 Winchester Special. It's virtually impossible to buy factory ammo, even here, there isn't any choice in loading (it's 170 grain core-lokt or nothing), it's $3/round, and it's horrible to shoot. But after some experimentation I have something that shoots softer than a 243 but makes a bigger hole than a 308.
And in your case, to take 30-30 (although it's much the same for any less common chambering), what you would be buying is a consistent supply of an ammunition type that is at best "niche" in the UK, and not necessarily guaranteed in any form. Additionally you can cater for "special circumstances". Need to shoot lead free somewhere? Load up some Fox or Yew Tree, and if they are spitzers you make a two-shot (one in the chamber, one in the mag). Or you need to get Scotland Legal, load up some 125 grain over a stout charge. Or want to shoot boar? 170 grain round nose is well proven.
Plus most of the kit is resellable for pretty much what you paid for it, so the risk is low.
But you're right, it takes some time to "save money" over factory!
Would you have any thoughts on using a Lee Loader to make ammo? Obviously there's less space for tweaking when you're measuring powder by the scoop, but as you say it would at least guarantee my supply and would pay for itself a lot quicker than a "proper" reloading kit.
Smellydog
Well-Known Member
Sorry to butt in.
I nearly went the Lee loader route but learnt that it only neck sizes.
In the past I've had 30-30 brass shoulder creep forward and stop the case head spacing on the rim. That in turn caused ignition issues with my AE model which has a rebounding hammer. Older Winchester 94 models without rebound hammers may deal with it better and Marlins but Winchester 94 AE models must have the cartridge properly sized.
I have nothing bad to say about the Lee loader. It is a proven system.
So with that I went with the Lee hand press and just two dies. Case trimmer. I already had scales.
I got ppu brass, ppu bullets.
Dies, press, ram prime, trimmer pretty much for under £200 from Henry Kranks.
You could get by with Lee dippers if you didn't want to get scales.
xavierdoc
Well-Known Member
Good advice.
Of course the 45-70 wouldn't have that problem with the Lee loader!
(I think 30-30 makes more sense for UK, really, but I just like the 45-70!)
Smellydog
Well-Known Member
Nothing wrong with 45/70.
I never scratched the itch.
I didn't fancy a heavy levergun and would probably go for a single shot, even a trapdoor maybe.
I had given it a lot of thought.
I was going to develop a small game load using a ball or some other light bullet.
Possibly stick to black powder for full power and soft lead bullets lubed with stiff beeswax and olive oil mix.
Oh no, I'm now talking myself into it again
At least the "which calibre" debate is somewhat more limited for lever actions than it is for other rifles!
From what I've read here, 30-30 does seem like the sensible choice (questionable short-barrel energy legality aside).
But I like the look of those big bore 45-70 1895s. Do I need one? No.
Do I want one? ABSOLUTELY!
Stalking is my hobby, I want rifles that make me grin like a schoolboy.
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