Longer range shooting?

[wildfowler.250]

What would you consider as key things for shooting further out?

I note a lot of Americans will shoot within 400 yards and consider it as reasonably ‘close’. Folk at bisley will shoot out to 1000 yards.

Now, I’ve no intention of shooting deer beyond my 250 yards max,(realistically 200-220) but it would be good to practice on targets and potentially shoot longer range crows etc.

Is it a case that you’re best with a scope that will dial in?
A home load and chrono’d round a requirement?
Are some rounds much more suited than others,(eg would I be more likely to have success with a .308 than a .270 or is hunting ammo likely comparable)?

To some degree, I suspect these guys may be shooting 5”-6” groups at 400 yards on something the size of an elk. I know practice will be a lot of it as well and reading the wind/user ability. But are somethings more ‘key’ to the setup?

Curious from someone who shoots like he feels he’s driving his car in 2nd gear all the time BUT without any interest in changing my hunting approach. Just curious to learn

 

[webley701]

1200 yards at Bisley actually.

Generally, I’d encourage anyone to try their hand on longer range inanimate targets where each shot position is marked as it’s fired - the effects of wind alone may be salutary - plus & most importantly it’s highly enjoyable.

 

[Forestgump]

If your scope has milldots why not just just try shooting longer ranges and learn your drop. As mentioned above it is great fun.

 

[Sonicdmb73]

Not my stalking rifle but my vermin/fox one. A Sako 75 in 20 Tac. I have a chronograph and have tested and verified my speed data into my ballistic app (Strelok Pro). I also have a set of Leica 8x40 range finding binoculars and a wind speed meter.
do I actually need all tha? Probably not practice and meticulous recording of shots wind call etc work too. It’s just that it’s easier with the kit especially if you target crows etc at longer ranges.
steel gongs against a sandy back stop are very informative too.

 

[Utectok]

So in my experience the minimum you need to shoot deer consistently at 2-350m is a good rangefinder or rangefinder binos and a dialable scope. The rest can be done with testing at range. Homeloads help but out to those ranges it’s not a requirement as factory ammunition is good to that distance easily. Chronograph is helpful but it’s just as good to shoot and measure drops at various distances. The most important thing is practice and know what you’re capable of. I’m very comfortable in calm conditions out to 200m off sticks standing and out to 350m off a bipod. If it’s windy of course it’s different but you’ll learn what works from experience. The main advantage of home loading is you tend to shoot more (practice) and that definitely helps.
Calibre wise 6.5mm it’s a no brainer really to start with at least.

 

[Bowland blades]

What would you consider as key things for shooting further out?

I note a lot of Americans will shoot within 400 yards and consider it as reasonably ‘close’. Folk at bisley will shoot out to 1000 yards.

Now, I’ve no intention of shooting deer beyond my 250 yards max,(realistically 200-220) but it would be good to practice on targets and potentially shoot longer range crows etc.

Is it a case that you’re best with a scope that will dial in?
A home load and chrono’d round a requirement?
Are some rounds much more suited than others,(eg would I be more likely to have success with a .308 than a .270 or is hunting ammo likely comparable)?

To some degree, I suspect these guys may be shooting 5”-6” groups at 400 yards on something the size of an elk. I know practice will be a lot of it as well and reading the wind/user ability. But are somethings more ‘key’ to the setup?

Curious from someone who shoots like he feels he’s driving his car in 2nd gear all the time BUT without any interest in changing my hunting approach. Just curious to learn

Facts are most all deer legal rifles can keep in the kill zone of a 400 yard broadside Red stag, little high or a little low trajectory? wind? , understand windages and contours and know when that sort of shot isnt on and prove you can do that reliably on paper / steel etc . You do not need to dial indeed in a hunting situation its sometimes far better to hold for wind and trajectory. Got very little with groups as your going for just the one shot. keep the groups for ammo testing and practice sessions.
Honestly 243 win through the range to say 300 win mag , it matters not a lot at all . Its the nut behind the butt that matters . Not your computer calculated sheet but solid marksmanship and time and space to practice. Reading wind and contour and knowing where you are at personally, definitely something you learn without plenty perfect practice the three Ps

 

[Trigger260]

Those guys would have pulled their barrel along time ago if they were getting 4-5inch groups at 400yrds!

 

[Selous]

In my opinion the single biggest thing to avoid is using holdover as it is much less precise compared to dialling or a graduated reticle. Elevation is relatively straightforward to learn but learning wind calls is a lot more difficult when the first round impact is vital. It works well to bracket the wind so if the maximum value is 1mph gusting to 6 mph you can work out the maximum and minimum deflections. Then using your graduated reticle you can check that the whole range will fit in the kill zone of the deer. If it doesn’t get closer.
Learn to build a solid shooting position quickly and carry simple aids to help you achieve that such as a bipod and a small rear bag. Most of all get out and practice at ranges 2-3 hundred yards beyond the maximum distance you would consider shooting at.

 

[willie_gunn]

I attended a long-range shooting course in Dumfries & Galloway run by a member here.

It was eye-opening in terms of gaining an understanding the intricacies of ballistics as well as the capabilities of a rifle when it is under the control of someone with the requisite knowledge and skills. More importantly it showed that long-range shooting was, as has been said above, great fun. Also, perhaps not unexpectedly, I found it to be a whole new discipline compared to the rifle shooting I was used to at my "normal" ranges for deer stalking.

My immediate takeaway was that I needed to upgrade my kit - a "standard" Sako 75 in .308 topped with a 6x42 scope, whilst perfectly adequate for woodland stalking, was never going to cut the mustard!

Whilst I did not consider (for long, anyway) changing the rifle itself, I did invest in a more powerful scope (IOR 4-14x50 with a Mil-Dot reticule), as well as a Leica rangefinder, a wind-meter, a chronograph and sundry additions to my reloading kit. I also stuck a bipod permanently on my rifle.

I had great fun working out a good load, and also learning about the intricacies of reading the wind - not that I was very successful doing so! At the time I was a member at Bisley, and enjoyed the opportunity to shoot over longer distances. Similarly the days run by Carl shooting metal gongs at Catton Park were a blast.

This lasted for perhaps two or three years, but it dawned on me that, for the ground where I stalk, the range at which I was shooting deer had not changed - the vast majority were still sub-150 metres and 95% of those were sub-100. The nature of the ground didn't lend itself to longer range shooting, other than in perhaps one or two spots, and even on my annual trips to Scotland I was still shooting deer under 250m. Also lugging around a rifle with a heavy scope, bipod and rangefinder was getting to be a pain, both literally and metaphorically.

So I ditched it all, and went back to the simple 2.5-10x50 scope that I still have. Now, if I see a deer, it is a simple job of "rifle up on sticks, aim, squeeze trigger, bang!"

That kind of simplicity has its own attraction, but if circumstances were different - particularly with regard to access to suitable ground - I could easily see myself getting back into it. Shooting an F-Class rifle was probably the most fun I've had with a firearm!

 

[HonestJohn]

To me the real joy lies in getting within 25-50yds, it gives me joy in the challenge. I’ll take shots to 250 if needed, but no further, and I don’t like it much as it leaves a lot of margin for error.

The long range deer shooting thing really comes from the US. The Americans have tag systems in public lands, and many on public lands don’t have the opportunities we do; often, it can be years between an opportunity at a deer - so often they shoot further and across different geographical layouts to fill their tags and not have to walk away from a rare opportunity. They also have much vaster spaces in the west, down in Texas, etc they also are gadget lovers and guns/ammo costs nothing, so practicing and plinking is cheap and easy to do, and as such, they’re probably better at it than us.

I do have to laugh when you read about bullets and their performances based on US hunters having used them once or twice - ‘can’t recommend these bullets enough, took my Colorado elk bull at 450yds and it DRT’…(spine shot)….or, this bullet is terrible, on my 2015 hunt for mule deer I filled my tag, but it ran 70yds after a good rear lung shot from 275yds’

In the U.K., not sure why we call it United really, but that’s a different story. There’s really no need topographically to take shots past the 200 ish mark, except for the odd hill situation or such, but it’s the exception and not the norm, and most places you really can put the crawling effort in and get closer…there’s ‘able to get closer’, and ‘it’s too uncomfortable to try to get closer’. I fear most long shots are taken due to the latter.

For me, zero 5-6cm high at 100, and point and shoot to 200. At 250, if needed, hold below the back/on the spine,,,no things that need to be pinged, nothing needing to be adjusted, just lay down, get a solid rest, squeeze.

 

[bullet chucker]

Last Saturday was my first' try at longer range shooting, Bisley Cobham Ridge. Privey Partisan 150 grain 30.06 ammo,Remington 700 left hand rifle,z5i 5-25x56 target turret scope. Nervous' the first 2 shots had' to strike the 150 yard steel or game over! Have I set the scope correctly? is the bipod too high? is the mag to great? bang! a hit! again WHAT? (I have hearing issues) another hit! Now' off we go,I targeted several distanced steels from 150 yards out to 600 in the time we had to shoot, the light and time weight for no man? As others have said, above I enjoyed it enormously and will try again with the ambition of engaging the 1000 yard steel. No way, would I have manged with out the target turret, a brilliant piece of kit for the job and the Swarovski ballisic programme to set it up to. I have learned a lot and answered many questions that were in my head on the mysteries of shooting at distance.

BC.

 

[finnbear270]

Training whilst enjoying: Eskdalemuir Stalker Training (Extended) Range Day, Sat 14th October 2023 #49 for happy faces.

Big bonus is now full on confidence if ever having to take a middle distance follow up shot in any unintended situation.

 

[Heym SR20]

I attended a long-range shooting course in Dumfries & Galloway run by a member here.

It was eye-opening in terms of gaining an understanding the intricacies of ballistics as well as the capabilities of a rifle when it is under the control of someone with the requisite knowledge and skills. More importantly it showed that long-range shooting was, as has been said above, great fun. Also, perhaps not unexpectedly, I found it to be a whole new discipline compared to the rifle shooting I was used to at my "normal" ranges for deer stalking.

My immediate takeaway was that I needed to upgrade my kit - a "standard" Sako 75 in .308 topped with a 6x42 scope, whilst perfectly adequate for woodland stalking, was never going to cut the mustard!

Whilst I did not consider (for long, anyway) changing the rifle itself, I did invest in a more powerful scope (IOR 4-14x50 with a Mil-Dot reticule), as well as a Leica rangefinder, a wind-meter, a chronograph and sundry additions to my reloading kit. I also stuck a bipod permanently on my rifle.

I had great fun working out a good load, and also learning about the intricacies of reading the wind - not that I was very successful doing so! At the time I was a member at Bisley, and enjoyed the opportunity to shoot over longer distances. Similarly the days run by Carl shooting metal gongs at Catton Park were a blast.

This lasted for perhaps two or three years, but it dawned on me that, for the ground where I stalk, the range at which I was shooting deer had not changed - the vast majority were still sub-150 metres and 95% of those were sub-100. The nature of the ground didn't lend itself to longer range shooting, other than in perhaps one or two spots, and even on my annual trips to Scotland I was still shooting deer under 250m. Also lugging around a rifle with a heavy scope, bipod and rangefinder was getting to be a pain, both literally and metaphorically.

So I ditched it all, and went back to the simple 2.5-10x50 scope that I still have. Now, if I see a deer, it is a simple job of "rifle up on sticks, aim, squeeze trigger, bang!"

That kind of simplicity has its own attraction, but if circumstances were different - particularly with regard to access to suitable ground - I could easily see myself getting back into it. Shooting an F-Class rifle was probably the most fun I've had with a firearm!

I came to that conclusion very early in my shooting career - just keep it simple.

I have shot long range gongs. I quite enjoy it, but not enough to go down the ling range rifle, scope etc malarkey. I get quite a bit of satisfaction in turning up to a club shoot and doing reasonably well with my 223 with a fixed 10x42 scope against others shooting 338 LM etc.

I would rather spend my pennies on other things. For me hunting is about getting close. I have shot animals at 300m. It’s a non event. But shooting a red stag at 30m that you have called in - what a buzz.

 

[Bowland blades]

Ok your not sport stalking when ranges get beyond say 250 , your shooting with purpose whatever the reasoning is . There is a misconception among many about hold over and yet nobody speaks of hold under ?
The larger species of deer come with a fairly large broadside on kill zone , that shouldn't even particularly require a special reticule . at the limit of your Point Blank Zero you can just put your cross hair at the top " line " of the imaginary circle , then come across to how much wind you require . If on the other hand your at peak trajectory and maybe you might go a tad high come down a little! Its important to be judging these adjustments on the deer , why ? because when you let that first shot go and you have carefully dialled in wind and used your rangefinder and adjusted you elevation.......... Your basically stuffed if the call is wrong on the wind / elevation or just plain made a bad shot . That needs fixing and what are you going to do then ? Your scope is set to the previous so its got to be a case of wild guesswork re-dialling! Culling ? you need to get as many as you can down , I 100% guarantee the rest of them wont just stand there waiting broadside for you to use the same dope you just dialled in and the guess on hold is far harder to alter for a person with normal memory .
Extra long range is however a different ball game say 600 plus , can you do that sort of dope change and dial it then from your previous ? Can you put your laser rangefinder on it ? No !
People shoot for different reasons at different times . To take one beast that is broadside with a 6 0r 12 o'clock light to medium wind , that is unaware? your only going to kill the one ? Dial it ! If not take some note of shooting with one set zero and coming up or across , it Works and it works well . What the Armed forces might call a battle zero , something that can and will take you to 500 yards without difficulty or any on the fly maths - just well educated guesses and safe zoning the shot !
If i have plenty time to range find the precise range and can get a clear windage and am only looking to either get or take just the one shot at one beast then dialling has its merits but then without a sighter shot , is it any better at all than seeing a back end of the kill zone for wind and come up to the higher section on the sweet spot on trajectory ? Will take a lot to convince me and i have done my fair share of both !
Just remember after the first shot your dialled in dope will generally speaking be a hinderance shooting any more from the group , as they will mostly move further or closer , to a different wind angle or contour .

 

[Jack3]

Confidence in your rifle/scope and set up is important.

I'd still consider myself fairly new to the game and shoot a Sauer 100 in 6.5CM with a Leica Amplus (2.5-15×56) scope. Most of my shooting is at Bisley at the British Sporting Rifle Club (BSRC) and I do some woodland stalking but most shots are within 150m.

Last year I nervously signed up for a BSRC Long Range day and it was samply brilliant!! Started at 200yds and went all the way back to the 600yds marker. I was using factory ammo so I measured my scope height and put all the data into the Hornady ballistic app and surprisingly it all worked. It was bang on!

I'm certainly not planning on going out and shooting deer at those distances but it's reassuring to know the ballistic turret on my Lecia scope does work.

 

[Bowland blades]

Last Saturday was my first' try at longer range shooting, Bisley Cobham Ridge. Privey Partisan 150 grain 30.06 ammo,Remington 700 left hand rifle,z5i 5-25x56 target turret scope. Nervous' the first 2 shots had' to strike the 150 yard steel or game over! Have I set the scope correctly? is the bipod too high? is the mag to great? bang! a hit! again WHAT? (I have hearing issues) another hit! Now' off we go,I targeted several distanced steels from 150 yards out to 600 in the time we had to shoot, the light and time weight for no man? As others have said, above I enjoyed it enormously and will try again with the ambition of engaging the 1000 yard steel. No way, would I have manged with out the target turret, a brilliant piece of kit for the job and the Swarovski ballisic programme to set it up to. I have learned a lot and answered many questions that were in my head on the mysteries of shooting at distance.

BC.

of course you would have made it if you knew where your shot would land in its trajectory curve but if it was zeroed about 200 most loads/ ammo would need x amount hold over the kill zone . Wind ? talking no sighter shot likewise a bit left or a bit right . Bisley is however flat and can hardly be termed a difficult range to dope and everyone gets two sighter shots on a range so you can actually dial in perfect and 25x gives you some of the ability to see mirage and grass movement down range ( depending on climate and how the flags move )

 

[75]

Two takeaways from previous long range days (700-100yds).

1. Regular practice is vital.
2. I don't do enough of 1 to ensure regular, 1st shot consistency to take longer shots on deer.

Whenever I've been on the range I've had a dialable scope, Strelock trued to my ammunition and a wind meter. If you move up incrementally, you quickly start to find gongs at 300-400yds "easy" but if you turn up and first shot is at 400yds with no "sighter", inconsistent wind and it's a while since you shot at that range then I doubt many first shots would find their target.

 

[bullet chucker]

of course you would have made it if you knew where your shot would land in its trajectory curve but if it was zeroed about 200 most loads/ ammo would need x amount hold over the kill zone . Wind ? talking no sighter shot likewise a bit left or a bit right . Bisley is however flat and can hardly be termed a difficult range to dope and everyone gets two sighter shots on a range so you can actually dial in perfect and 25x gives you some of the ability to see mirage and grass movement down range ( depending on climate and how the flags move )

Take your points the COBHAM RIDGE is set out on moor land, ex military tank range,silver birch,No flags, very wild,enough to support the local Red Deer herd that are out of bounds to engage!

BC.

 

[Bowland blades]

Two takeaways from previous long range days (700-100yds).

1. Regular practice is vital.
2. I don't do enough of 1 to ensure regular, 1st shot consistency to take longer shots on deer.

Whenever I've been on the range I've had a dialable scope, Strelock trued to my ammunition and a wind meter. If you move up incrementally, you quickly start to find gongs at 300-400yds "easy" but if you turn up and first shot is at 400yds with no "sighter", inconsistent wind and it's a while since you shot at that range then I doubt many first shots would find their target.

of course the true test of the stalker is the ability to read wind without mildotting the previous shot etc. Or to know when that shot just wasn't on in the conditions faced.

 

[Dalua]

of course the true test of the stalker is the ability to read wind without mildotting the previous shot etc. Or to know when that shot just wasn't on in the conditions faced.

I'd put the most emphasis on modestly and undramatically admitting the second; and avoid taking what will in nearly all cases be a vague punt on the former.