looking for advise on new thermal generation

[Motard]

Beg Your’s pardon if my first post is a query but I firmly believe there are few other sites where to get aknowledged answers on this argoument. So I am willimg to upgrade from my current axion 2 xq to a better resolution and sensor thermal handheld. Mine is the first edition, not the pro, but it still have some lasting monts of official warrantee that can make it more appealinng for eventual resale (nor willing to sell here, I will gave it back to the shop where I bought and pay the difference for the new). So from my personal experience I would like to go for a 640x480 sensor (better detailed image) but still stay with the 17 pixel pitch because of the greater capability of catching heat signal. Not a lot of choises unfortunatly. My personal list contain only the Pulsar Talion Xp but…. it is really cumbersome to my eyes and. Other cons: it seems to still offer a lower netd.and it cames with plasic body. Any suggestion where to look at.. Mind that I avoid like pest internal non self repleaceables batteries casue of the lacking of official service here in Italy. My last doubt: the asian producers seems are all turning to the 12 pitch so_ does incersing the netd values help minimizing the gaps with the 17 sensors?

 

[jthyttin]

More pixels in the sensor will not give you greater detail, it only gives more FOV. The picture might look smoother, since more (sensor) pixels are displayed in the near eye display.

Three things affect the detail that a device is capable of. Sensor pixel size (smaller the better), lens focal length (larger the better) and overall sensitivity of the device (sensor sensitivity and lens quality and "speed"). In addition to those, the software in the device will affect a great deal how the picture looks like.

So if you've locked into the 17um pixel pitch, you need to get larger lens (both focal length and physical size) to get more detail. Moving to 640 class sensor will keep the FOV reasonably wide.

 

[Motard]

Thnakyou Sir. Just for my personal knowledge there is still a huge differnce betwwen 17 and 12 micro sensor's while spotting in bad weather and humd climate? I mainly hunt in Tuscany betheen months and sea and weather turns rapidly in the day. This why I where looking at (ie) Telos XP model wich is still with the 17 sensor. What I ignore is if the lowered NETD of the last 12micron generation helps erasing the gap?

 

[mealiejimmy]

Treat all the different manufacturers claims for their NETD values with extreme scepticism
There is no way for a user to actually measure their claimed values to see if they are accurate, nor is there any standardised method of measuring NETD, so they all use different methods to get the answer they want
NETD has become a marketing tool in the same way that processor speed in a computer and 0-100km/h times for cars are marketing tools
Because of variations in the production process, on a thermal sensor production line, the NETD of each sensor is not the same, so each sensor is tested for NETD and put into groups defined by a range of NETD values.
The sensors with the lowest NETD values sell for more than those with higher NETD values
Over time, as the production process is refined, more of the sensors have lower NETD values so more products appear with those lower NETD sensor
It's quite possible for a manufacturer to buy a few of the lowest NETD sensors and put them in demo models of a new thermal product to get good reviews and then to fit higher NETD sensors in the main production runs of the same product
Here are a few examples of claimed NETD values
1. Nocpix Vista thermal monocular - claimed NETD <15mK
2. Thermtec Wild thermal monmocular - claimed NETD <18mK
3. HIK Condor thermal monocular - claimed NETD <20mK
4. Pixfra thermal monocular - claimed NETD <30mK
5. Night Pearl thermal monocular - claimed NETD ,25mK
6. Pulsar XQ and XP models (17 micron) - claimed NETD between 18 and 25mK depending on model
Pulsar XG models (12 micron) - claimed NETD 40mK
Pulsar XL models (12 micron) - claimed NETD <40mK
Of all these manufacturers, I would tend to be least sceptical about the claims made by Pulsar
Also, bear in mind that the effective NETD depends on both the sensor and the objective lens and that is given by the sensor NETD multiplied by the lens aperture squared
If the lens aperture is f1.0 then the effective NETD is the same as the sensor NETD
If the lens aperture is f1.2 the the effective NETD is the sensor NETD multiplied by 1.44 (1.2 squared)
However the effective NETD does NOT get smaller when a lens with an aperture of less than 1 is used (e,g f0.9)

Cheers

Bruce

 

[Motard]

Hallo Bruce Tankyou so much such a deep and knowledged explanation. I am all but expert in thermals but did got the evidence of those so lower Netd values claimed by many east factorys. I still have a pulsar axion xq (not the pro) wich serves me well for staking but would swap it mainly for one handheld with a better screen. Still cannot convince myself to go for a thermal scope on rifle for many reasons. The most important are the various local hunting laws that asks for different calibers (instead stating the minimum projectile'joules) depending of the preys you are after. Then me too I like to change the rifle often so I use yhe Axion 2 for scanning and humil a Pard007Sp for shooting. The Nv has also a built in range feature thatbcomes in hands when recovering the animal in the dark.Now I am in the market for a new handheld but would way prefer a 17pitch sensor.

 

[Motard]

Well just come back home from field in a rainy and misty night. Bud brought a brand new Telos XL with LRF. Great piece of equipment and super large screen but.....It was easer to me spotting hares and foxes with my trusty Axion 35XQ than with the telos . To be honest I didn'whanted to change the dioptres to my needs because he was starting playnt with hisnew toy and too I didn't messed with contrast and illumination for the same reason, nor tried to shut down eventual software's filter's. But I was not so impressed. Better say': the whole pictures was great: many more details of the scene than in the axion but the spot with the animal was'nt (to my eyes) on pair withe the rest of the pic.

 

[SussexSteve]

What is your budget ?

 

[Motard]

What is your budget ?

tryng to stay 3.000/3.500 euros

 

[Motard]

Anyway I am not sayng the Terlos is not a (very) good piece of equipmenet. FDor shure it is and I wish I couldhave trioed the XP model insteaad of XL. Anyway cause upgrding from axion 2 to it would cost me rather the 100% more jsut thinkimg probably doesent'worth on a handheld device. If for shooting any bits of detail that can be extracted frome del image is worth the expenses. CauseI am only scanning with the thermal and then whene I know something is there go for the PardSP mountedo my daytime scope Ithint I'll stick untill my ideal device will hit the market: high grade sensor with 17pitch, 35mm lens, hgh res screen & possibly not proprietary batteries.

 

[Sniper308]

For me, the videos I have see off YouTube, the new nocpix seems so much better than anything else. Failing that Hik would be my other choice….. no first hand experience on either device, but the online footage seems spot on, in fact, these are the first two devices that I have ever truly been impressed with. The older stuff has always seemed blurry to me. Like could easily mistaken a cat for a fox.

 

[Motard]

For me, the videos I have see off YouTube, the new nocpix seems so much better than anything else. Failing that Hik would be my other choice….. no first hand experience on either device, but the online footage seems spot on, in fact, these are the first two devices that I have ever truly been impressed with. The older stuff has always seemed blurry to me. Like could easily mistaken a cat fir a fox.

 

[Motard]

Image definition is for sure one important for thermal items evaluations but there are plenty of other factors (at least to me) to take in account. In my experience is easier to distinguish a cat from a fox from the way it walks, stalks in other words from the behaviour than from the heat image. There are too many variables tha can mask the the pic but with some experience on the field you refine the ability for identify any thing you met before.

 

[SussexSteve]

I’ve just bought the hik habroks hq35l spot on for the money. Had about 10 different thermal spotters now and around 10 thermal scopes

 

[Motard]

I’ve just bought the hik habroks hq35l spot on for the money.

Mice having some first hand information from You as soon as you have time.