LRF/NV Scope upgrade quandary

[sauer]

bottom line ... you can look at the specs and weigh up pro's & con's IR no IR etc ..... ergonomics ... BUT

the best test is the mk1 eyeball and try if can before you buy and see what suits or what you prefer!

ATN has has said a disastrous history with regard to customer service here in the past, but you CANNOT knock the gentleman for coming on here with an offer he has placed ...hats off to them and hopefully same kind of level of service for everyone going forward ....

Paul

 

[Mac78]

So, here is the problem: I have a thermal spotter without an LRF, and an Alpex gen 1 NV scope (so no LRF there either). Upgrading the thermal to an LRF version is way too expensive, but foxing on new ground is making an LRF quite necessary. It is up on the moors, so distance is difficult to judge at night and shooting range is rarely under 175m.
One option is to upgrade the Alpex to a 4k with LRF (£849) or look at the Arken Zulu with an LRF (£600), and sell the Gen 1 Alpex.
Another option is to get a standalone LRF to fit to the scope/rifle, but I am unsure how good these are or what to look for?

Has anyone got comparable knowledge of the new Alpex and the Zulu?

Is the screen definition noticeably better on the new Alpex than the old?

Or any other suggestion? I seem to be going round in circles on this. Not fussed about the ballistics calculator.

Thanks in advance for your help.

I had exactly the same quandary as you. Bought a second hand LE032 LRF and stuck it on the Alpex. Job done.

 

[nun_hunter]

Just to clarify the Alpex 4K LRF is 1176g without IR torch or IR mount, so no light weight either, so for a small low weight Option then it would be the Zulus but you have to run the app on your phone for the ballistic calculator to work. so more shat to be dealing with phone fully charged, a glaring screen etc, horses for courses and each to their own.
I think @ATNUK are doing what any sussed business would do after picking up the pieces from the disastrous last lot, by positive customer engagement and promotion . What business isn’t chasing sales ? They have been fantastic when dealing with them for servicing etc .

I don't. Once set up the Zulus works self contained by itself.

You would only need the phone if you wanted to switch between ballistic profiles while still out in the field or for some reason chose to make your life difficult and didn't transfer the ballistic data to the zulus but instead kept it on your phone. That is a choice though and not how most of us use the Zulus.

 

[User00051]

The X Sight 5 does not come with an IR and it weighs 1Kg, compared to 0.6Kg for the Zulus
By the time you fit an IR with adjustable mount, the X Sight is going to be more than 1.5Kg and getting on for three times the weight of the Zulus - not to mention the physical size and bulk of the ATN
I wish you well with your X Sight 5 when it comes, but to me the it sounds like ATN are desperate for sales

Cheers

Bruce

Unless you actually know the product, we recommend keeping your views factual rather than opinionated Bruce. Thank you in advance.

The X Sight 5 does in fact come with an IR, included in the box, not built in like the Zulus, but at least it comes with an IR supplied, as well as scope rings for Piccy rails.

It weighs 0.95kg, not 1kg. I tested the Arken Zulus the other day, I agree it is very very good, but it's a tiny tiny little screen - perfect for air rifles or AR platforms.

The physical size and 'bulk' of the ATN is slimmer than the HIK that you love so much???

We are not desperate for sales, we are trying to overcome the poison that spreads online when someone gets their feelings hurt, and we are trying to show that this is in fact a really good product.

If you don't want to give it a chance, don't buy it yourself Bruce - but don't try to talk others out of it with demafatory remarks.

Thank you -

 

[west_meon]

I am hoping to mount an IR on my rifle stock, so wouldn't have to attach it to the scope, although you are still carrying the weight. The Gen 1 Alpex is no lightweight either.

As Sauer says, personal use is the only real gauge, as a lot comes down to a subjective choice and the style of scope/image/requirements that you need or prefer - the best scope for one person may be the worst for another.

I will be sitting the ATN alongside a Pulsar C50 and a Gen 1 Alpex on a 223 for fox control usually shooting out to 175m-200m, so hope to get a reasonable comparison.

I think that ATN have been quite brave to offer their scope as a potential sacrificial lamb, and they obviously have faith in it, so I will give it a whirl and report back, warts and all!

 

[LarryLightFoot]

I don't. Once set up the Zulus works self contained by itself.

You would only need the phone if you wanted to switch between ballistic profiles while still out in the field or for some reason chose to make your life difficult and didn't transfer the ballistic data to the zulus but instead kept it on your phone. That is a choice though and not how most of us use the Zulus.

I stand corrected and have got the wrong end of the information stick, cheers .

 

[Herb64]

Ive not got a dog in this fight as I won’t change from my Vulpine MK3 but absolutely fair play to @ATNUK for his offer. Personally I think it would be polite, to say the least, if others let the OP give the unit a fair trial without clouding the waters. Constantly banging the drum for the Zulus is getting dull by certain posters on this and other sites. If the ATN is not great, and we won’t know that till it’s tested, then so be it. Till then why not cut the company a bit of slack and await results from a trial.

 

[Acm]

Having looked through some of the atn scopes at the stalking show I was quite impressed, not enough to change from my alpex 4k, but they’re worth looking at.

 

[sauer]

Just for information Mealiejimmy has been banned on this thread & cannot comment further.


Paul

 

[SuperSixFive]

Ive not got a dog in this fight as I won’t change from my Vulpine MK3 but absolutely fair play to @ATNUK for his offer. Personally I think it would be polite, to say the least, if others let the OP give the unit a fair trial without clouding the waters. Constantly banging the drum for the Zulus is getting dull by certain posters on this and other sites. If the ATN is not great, and we won’t know that till it’s tested, then so be it. Till then why not cut the company a bit of slack and await results from a trial.

Absolutely this Julian

 

[west_meon]

First update - picked up the X Sight 5 5-25 on Wednesday from the Hereford factory. Had a long conversation about it with Rob, the operations manager there, who was very honest and no question went unanswered. After a look at the production line and operations, and a quick run through of how the scope functioned, it is back home being charged, and will post again when we have had a chance to go through the box in detail.

 

[west_meon]

I spent some time today looking through the manual, which made a pleasant change. It has actually been written in English without being translated through three other languages! It makes intelligent and grammatical sense and actually covers everything in a comprehensive way that is understandable, even if you are not the most IT savvy person! Setting the scope parameters in the settings was fairly straight forward, and was easier when I used the App on my phone to upload info. I have also set the ballistics calculator for the bullets I am using, which was surprisingly easy. I am not sure how much I will use it as a 223 zeroed at 100m is pretty much good for 200m, but it will be interesting to see what it thinks?

I have had a few occurrences of the scope freezing. Once when trying to connect to the App, and both scope and phone froze. Switching off and on sorted that. The scope also froze once when left for 10 minutes or so on the table. Again, a reboot sorted the issue. I hope this isn't going to be a regular thing! When app and scope both froze, I suspect it was more due to a fairly elderly phone rather than a scope issue.

I have also compared the X Sight 5 with the Alpex A50T and the Pulsar C50 for bulk and weight, without mounts or IR.
Pulsar C50 1.11kg
Alex A50T 1.094kg
ATN X Sight 5 LRF 1.060kg.
It is worth bearing in mind that the ATN had an LRF attached, which the other two did not, and it was still lighter.

Bulk-wise, the ATN is much slimmer with a lower profile than the Alpex or C50. The C50 is much longer and larger diameter. Photos below. C50 on the rifle, ATN in the middle and Alpex above. C50 vs ATN in photo 2, Alpex vs ATN in photo 3, and the Alpex and ATN on the scales.

 

[west_meon]

SO what was in the box? You have the scope with LRF, a sun shade that can be screwed onto the front, a front lens cover, a rear concertina style eye cup, an IR torch, and pic mount, rechargeable battery for the IR and charger, USB C cable, Alan Keys, and three mounts (one extended), one of which has a pic mount on the side for the IR torch if you wish to mount it there. I intend to try the torch out, and also test the scope with the Pulsar IR (floodlight style), HiK torch (focusable) and a PBIR. Basically, the box contains everything that you need to get started, except for the SD card that is used to do firmware updates and to store photos and video footage. The scope has no internal memory storage for photos or video, so although you can stream live footage to your phone using the App, everything else goes onto the card and you then transfer to your laptop etc using a hub or card reader. There must be a logic behind this, but as my laptop, which is only 3 years old has no port for an SD card not only do you need to go and buy a card, but also potentially a SD card reader. A card in the box that was at least capable of dealing with the firmware updates would be a good idea. Beyond that, it will depend on the needs of the user. Some may only want to take a few photos or short vids, so the basic card should suffice. Others will want to record a full length feature film, with interval and ice cream, so may need some larger capacity!

Also in the box is a neoprene scope bag. Unlike the pulsar or Alpex which come with hard cases (that once you have mounted the scope you put in the cupboard and never use again), ATN have only supplied a scope bag. However, this has clearly been thought about as it has a double zip, so it can be dropped over the scope on the rifle, and zipped from each end, doubling as a scope cover to keep dust/rain etc off the scope while being carried. I thought this was quite a cunning idea, whilst also doing away with a lump of impressive looking packaging that you never use!

 

[west_meon]

The included mounts were interesting. I appreciate that it means you can get the scope up and running, but the mounts provided are very light weight, and mounts tend to be something that shooters are very particular about, whether it be Optilock, quick release mounts, Tier 1 etc, and they tend to stick to what they know and trust. Because of the central console there is a limited amount of scope tube to fit the mounts to and allow much adjustment, and the scope is slightly more tricky to mount than the Alpex or C50 because unlike them it requires eye relief. As a result you may need to shift it further back than the C50 or Alpex, presumably hence the extended mount in the box.

The mounts look like they would be fine for air rifles, 22LR or .17 HMR. I would be a bit cautious of using them on a larger centre fire rifle, as personally I prefer a bit more solidity in my mounts. This is going onto a 223 rather than the .308, so the lighter mounts supplied would probably work, but I decided to stick to the mounts I already had for the Alpex. This also meant that I could compare the scopes, without new mounts giving another variable to deal with! With a bit of shifting back and forth on the pic rail, I got the eye relief sorted out, and the scope in place. The 'cant' display is helpful to make sure you have the scope properly aligned.

The upside of the supplied mounts is that one of them has a pic mount on the side to allow the IR torch to be mounted there, but as I am using a GRS with a secondary pic rail on the fore stock, this wasn't an issue. If using a traditional style 'hunter' stock, the secondary pic rail may not be feasible, and there is very little space on the scope tube to fit a mount for the IR, so the supplied mount may be the default option.

 

[west_meon]

I was hoping to get the scope zeroed this evening, but thunderstorms have put paid to that, so will have a go tomorrow if the weather behaves!

Initial use in the fields was impressive. The screen is a good size , and you don't feel as though the view is lacking width, or cramped. The zoom is smooth and quite rapid. I do find the ability to jump the zoom up or down on the Alpex quite handy, but the continuous zoom on the Alpex is slow. The level of detail on the X sight 5 is also impressive, even at longer ranges and high mag. At 207m a lying down sheep was not only clearly seen in fine detail, you could also see it chewing the cud, the lie of the fleece, and the surrounding grass and thistles. Hawthorne in the hedge behind was clearly defined, and you could see the detail of the foliage. With the Alpex, it was tricky to see the sheep at all as only the head was visible - the body and surrounding grass merged together. The hedge behind was visible as texture, rather than detail. This was 9:30pm with good background IR and no torch and the scopes in night mode. At ranges of 500m + the detail with the ATN was still clearly defined, even on 25x mag, where as the Alpex A50T was noticeably less clear, much more pixelated at maximum mag (14x), and with little blending of light and shade - it was either black or white. It quickly became clear that with the Alpex, longer ranges were limited by pixelation and sensor quality. The ATN was limited by the IR available, rather than the sensor or screen quality. At ranges of 50 -100m , the ATN still scored above the Alpex, especially with the higher maximum mag (25x vs 14x) and reduced pixilation, but there was less of a gap between the two.

 

[west_meon]

Some photos from the ATN scope. 9:30 at night, so at dusk. Range is shown in the bottom right corner. Magnification is at the top left.

 

[west_meon]

And I will add that these were taken BEFORE the sight was fitted to the rifle! The house photo was done purely to show the detail at 25x mag at 1250m.

 

[sy247]

Some photos from the ATN scope. 9:30 at night, so at dusk. Range is shown in the bottom right corner. Magnification is at the top left.

Impressive

 

[west_meon]

This is from the HiK Alpex, at max magnification (14x). These sheep were just visible to the left in picture ATNX0028, so at 221m. Both pictures are at 14x mag. This was taken at the same time (9.30pm) but I haven't got round to adjusting the clock for BST!

No IR torch was being used with any of these photos.

 

[west_meon]

So to recap, I have had an ATN X Sight 5 5x-25x with built in LRF to try out now for quite a while. I also have an Alpex (1st Gen not 4k) and son has a C50. The ATN works very well, generally. No tech is without bugs, including both the Alpex and the C50 (and we have had problems with both and had to do firmware updates, and both have lost zero for no explainable reason).

One big plus for the ATN is that the manual is comprehensive and written in English, unlike the Alpex manual which is next to useless and unintelligible.

The resolution on the ATN is superb in daylight (in day mode or night mode) and dusk (in night mode) without an IR torch. After 'lights out' you will need a powerful IR as the one in the box is only good to 50m-75m at most. I have swapped to a PBIR, and the ATN works well up to 500m.

The mounts that come with the X Sight are fairly light weight so if putting it on a centre fire of a larger calibre than .17hmr I would be tempted to use beefier mounts.

The ballistic calculator works very well on the range, and the rangefinder is accurate. No issues with zeroing (no more fiddly that the Alpex or C50) and a stable reticule. When zeroing, I started on base mag, then fine tuned it on higher magnifications, and then test shot at all magnifications and the zero stayed good with no variation. The only issue that has come to light is that the rangefinder sometimes fails to function when you press the button, which means that if you are using the BC your reticle has adjusted zero to the last range check. If your target has moved since then your zero will be off until you manage to get the rangefinder to function again. As a result, I now don't use the BC when on live quarry.

Battery life is about three times what we get from the Alpex or C50.

Weight wise there are only grams in it, and the ATN is the lighter of the three, but we aren't talking much. It is however a much slimmer and lower profile than the other two. Screen is a good size and well laid out. Functionality is also good, but the buttons do take a bit of getting used to, and (more importantly) don't always work. The main issue I have had other than the LRF not always functioning is that the zoom tends to stick and refuse to move, and then jump to either full or base depending which direction you were trying to go, and if you zoom in on a target then switch on the BC or hit the menu button, the zoom goes straight to base mag (5x). At the start of an outing I now switch off the BC, set the mag to about 8x-10x and leave it at that. When you do zoom in, the pixilation is so much less than the Alpex, and also slightly better than the C50.

With regard to which is the best scope, the Alpex (gen 1, not the 4k) is perfectly usable and basic, and if you are not techy then fine. The ATN and the C50 are pretty much on a par with the ATN having slightly better screen quality, but the ATN is lighter, less bulky and much cheaper, and comes with a built in LRF and BC. The problems are that the buttons don't always work, or they malfunction. I am hoping that a firmware update can fix this? There are also several functions that I can't see a use for in the UK (like group hunting). I feel that ATN have tried to do 'Everything', and as a result some of the basic stuff doesn't work as it should.

The jury is still out, as there are elements of the X Sight 5 that I really like - (sensor, screen quality, reticule, LRF, zeroing), but other important bits that don't function quite right (zoom and LRF/BC). If they can be sorted then it will be an excellent scope.