Making stalking more accessible

I applaude that I really do .......
Then unfortunately there is the “ other” side of the coin which many on here have experience of....

You meet someone thru various means ...sites like these, locally If someone moved in etc.....
You get on initially and you take the guy out and he seems appreciable and very happy .....then you find out said individually has been to land owner and tried to gazump you behind your back ....or you turn up one day and he’s there with his mates all tooled up .

I am very fortunate with the bits I have ...and the syndicate I’m in we all a known entity to one another .....

But I’d be wary of an unknown after seeing above happen ......and other like stories .

Human nature’s not always nice .....people often ask where I stalk ...I don’t tell them ....

Am I fiercely protective ? Yes .....have I the right to? Maybe not but I love what I do where I do it ......and if I was 100% on somebody I’d have them out in a heartbeat ......but lot of folk willing to stick knife in your back unfortunately

Paul


Very true but I put a lot of effort into ensuring the land owners think I am good at my job.

I am acutly aware of the risk on my sites, but lets face it any one can rock up at any site and out bid anyone whether they have been to the site with you or not.

I have a signed contract with all my members to say they wont do this. If they do I will sue them for breach of contract without hesitation

I am told I am a realy nice bloke but screw me over at your perrel
 
The simple fact is that if the lease was Owned by some one in England and the targets are not met. Then the lease is not renewed the next time around.
Stalking a FC beat is a job. Not for a casual one day a month affair.
I for one would not want any tom, dick or harry wandering around my beat as is done in the states.
Our idea of Stalking is worlds apart from our gun toting blast it if it moves American cousins. So there is no comparison.

That last line is false , uninformed and in bad taste . I'm a Canadian , not American , but I find that sort of statement is pointed at me as well . In all my years of hunting in this country and the years I've spent in the states , I have NEVER met anyone like you describe . Maybe get out a little more and meet these people you've just insulted , or stop watching youtube . In all the years I've been on this site , this is one of the most insulting and ill informed posts I've read .

AB
 
I applaude that I really do .......
Then unfortunately there is the “ other” side of the coin which many on here have experience of....

You meet someone thru various means ...sites like these, locally If someone moved in etc.....
You get on initially and you take the guy out and he seems appreciable and very happy .....then you find out said individually has been to land owner and tried to gazump you behind your back ....or you turn up one day and he’s there with his mates all tooled up .

I am very fortunate with the bits I have ...and the syndicate I’m in we all a known entity to one another .....

But I’d be wary of an unknown after seeing above happen ......and other like stories .

Human nature’s not always nice .....people often ask where I stalk ...I don’t tell them ....

Am I fiercely protective ? Yes .....have I the right to? Maybe not but I love what I do where I do it ......and if I was 100% on somebody I’d have them out in a heartbeat ......but lot of folk willing to stick knife in your back unfortunately

Paul

I do sympathise with your comments but I also agree with Chasey. If you don't give everyone the benefit of the doubt and assume people are inherently good until proven otherwise you will miss out a lot in life in general. As much as possible I take out non stalkers to give them an idea of what I do and have taken out shooting friends and swapped days at theirs etc mainly because I know how hard it was to get started without knowing anyone in to fieldsports.
 
Do you have a link where I could read up on those accident rates . We do hear of accidents , but I didn't know it was that high . I'm not overly surprised at those numbers though . There are literally millions of hunters in north America . Thanks in advance .

AB

I wondered about those stats too.

A quick Google attributes those numbers to the International Hunters Education Association, though when you drill into it the quote appear to be based on one year's returns - 1994: http://www.ihea-usa.org/_assets/documents/ihea1994.pdf

A quick search on the Hunter's Ed website showed it now has statistics from 2002 to 2007: Incident Reports 2002 to 2007

Although still 10 years old, these stats appear to show that, in 2007, there were 267 incidents of which 25 were fatal. Of course you can't tell how many incidents were not reported, nor what the population of hunters was state by state, but it would suggest the numbers of accidents has fallen.

It would seem the only way to get the national numbers would be to trawl the DNR sites for each state.

The NSSF (National Shooting Sports Foundation) stated in 2011 that there were 16.3m hunters. Of these, 8,122 sustained injuries of which the vast majority (6,600) related to tree stands: Hunting Is Safer Than Golf and Most Other Recreational Activities NSSF

Googling did provide some other interesting articles though.

Hunters in Pennsylvania seem to follow the NSSF conclusions, as they are more likely to die falling from a tree stand than from gunshot: Tree stand accidents increase even as hunter numbers decrease | Outdoors | lancasteronline.com

In New York State, 6 hunters died in the opening 10 days of hunting season - three were shot, one fell from a tree stand and the other two had medical emergencies (heart attack?): 6 hunters dead across New York state since deer opener | News | oleantimesherald.com
 
That last line is false , uninformed and in bad taste . I'm a Canadian , not American , but I find that sort of statement is pointed at me as well . In all my years of hunting in this country and the years I've spent in the states , I have NEVER met anyone like you describe . Maybe get out a little more and meet these people you've just insulted , or stop watching youtube . In all the years I've been on this site , this is one of the most insulting and ill informed posts I've read .

AB
I am educated to know where Canada is. Texas heart shot? The amount of "accidents" that occur in the states is staggering. I have met many US service men to back my gun hoe statement. Not all are bad but they do have plenty. AS for an insult to you? you are in Alberta not America, so that leaves you out of my statement
And if thats insulting then tough.
 
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I think that's a bit of a generalisation and probably unfair to the majority of American hunters. You mention any Tom Dick or Harry walking round your beat. Well if you own the land and that 'beat' then fair enough they're trespassing but if you're just leasing it then it sounds a bit like the 'i can afford it so I'm alright Jack' which is something I have encountered way too much in British fieldsports.
Not at all. Its about safety and that's all. The less folk milling about with rifles the better for all and less chance of an accident.
 
Not at all. Its about safety and that's all. The less folk milling about with rifles the better for all and less chance of an accident.

Well I hope you're first in the queue to surrender your rifles and stalking for the greater good of public safety! With comments like that from a stalker we don't need antis arguing to restrict firearms to professional employees only!
 
Americans shoot 6 million deer a year. Accident rates per deer are extremely low.

Victoria, Australia officially shoots now over 100,000 deer per year. We have had one shooting related deaths in the last 10 years. There are more than 30,000 licenced hunters with access to public land. Just putting it into perspective the old safety is a reason to restrict access doesnt add up.
 
Not at all. Its about safety and that's all. The less folk milling about with rifles the better for all and less chance of an accident.

Accident rates for country drivers will always be higher than the city is not a reason to ban either.
 
The German training system that one has to go through to prepare oneself for the hunting assessments and exams are very rigorous indeed. However, there is nothing that prevents a novice from joining a Jagdschein holder ( hunting license holder) and watching what is involved in various tasks, they just can't shoot at live quarry, which is no bad thing.
One of the main subjects of study in the Jagdschein preparation course is conservation and agricultural practices and forestry . In Germany, the killing of a Game animal, is a very tiny part of a much bigger picture and that is obviously conservation.
Other key areas of study and assessment are: safety, flora and fauna, hunting law, diseases and pests , handling of game, food hygiene, hunting tradition and history, hunting signals , tracking wounded game , gun handling and ability to shoot in 7 different disciplines, hunting formations, internal external and terminal ballistics for revolvers, semi automatic pistols, bolt action rifles, semi automatic rifles, shotguns, and combination guns such as drillings. In the preparation course the average student will shoot thousands of clay pigeons, and hundreds to thousands of centrefire cartridges at moving and static targets. It makes the DSC1 and 2 and the DMQ look like an infant school reading test.
To a German hunter, the concept of a person taking a rifle and shooting at a live creature , prior to having successfully passed the training and exams required to hold a Jagdschein ,just because someone wants to see if they enjoy killing something, is laughable.
Having completed the German Jagdschein exams and assessments, and being a Jagdschein holder myself, i can guarantee you that you can hunt far more freely and at lower cost in Germany than you can here if you don't have access to your own hunting ground. In short, this is to do with the German hunting Revier system which means that the hunting rights are not directly related to land ownership, but rather to the person or people or group that have taken on the responsibility to manage a particular revier. It is quite common for villages to have quite large hunting Reviers that are jointly funded and run by the hunters in that village or the surrounding area. So, unless someone is totally skint and can't afford a few hundred euros a year to join a syindicate, or is unable to remain friends with other hunters in their local area , they will always have lots of hunting opportunities in Germany, many of them costing nothing at all.
I doubt there will ever be a hunting revier system here in England but it is possible for people from the uk to get a temporary two week visitors hunting permit in Germany if they have a Jagdschein holder who can vouch for them and invites them on a hunting trip in Germany. For this you need to have completed at least a Dsc1 and hold a valid fac and european fap. Sadly, I think that after Brexit, this may become rather less simple for non Jagdschein holding British hunters though.

Kinest regards, Olaf
All the above is bang on the money. I had never paid to hunt in Germany in the last 18 years, always was invited, till I did an organised driven hunt last weekend.
 
All the above is bang on the money. I had never paid to hunt in Germany in the last 18 years, always was invited, till I did an organised driven hunt last weekend.

I am lucky also not to have paid to hunt in Germany... And go a fair bit and reciprocate with invitations for my German friends to come here... Interesting to hear about the local syndicates - this was not something I have encountered. Mainly I have gone with families who have owned the forest, and when looking into other hunting opportunities there they seemed more expensive in Germany than in the UK (both cull hunting for roe buck say, up to the trophy fees for medal class stags).

My main point which Olaf, and many of my German friends, disagree with, is that the Jagdschein is a high barrier to entry and one which I personally feel is too exclusive. I think we should do everything we can to encourage anyone who says, "I want to try stalking and to understand its role in conservation and food" we can. And to respond with, "you can watch, but if you'd like to do you'll need to do a years course" is asking quite a lot of that person.

I am 100% in agreement that people should learn about the countryside and endeavour to have a holistic experience of hunting, but to legislate that means those who aren't 100% determined probably don't get the exposure they could. Watching is not the same as doing. I have guided a number of friends through the basic elements of safety, etc to the point I am confident they could make a good kill and have managed to get them their first deer. That full early encounter has been the catalyst for them becoming responsible, engaged hunters and I doubt this would have been the case in Germany. I appreciate the German way though and love hunting there - but I think it is also a shame it is so legislated!

Finally, FYI, all you need to get a Jagdschein in the 4 areas I have hunted there is a shotgun OR FAC, and insurance. No DSC1 or Euro FAP...
 
Before I bought this site some 9 or so years ago, 85% of my client base were Americans. In some 40 years now of stalking I have seen just about everything. But in all honesty nearly all the American clients I had were good honest safe people. Some became close friends to the point where I stayed at their homes many times.

Sweeping statements about various countries being unsafe with firearms, its always America that comes to the fore. Yes they have a gun culture, but most hunters are safe people, not all, but most. Having said that I have met a few English people I wouldn't let loose with a catapult let alone a firearm.
 
Before I bought this site some 9 or so years ago, 85% of my client base were Americans. In some 40 years now of stalking I have seen just about everything. But in all honesty nearly all the American clients I had were good honest safe people. Some became close friends to the point where I stayed at their homes many times.

Sweeping statements about various countries being unsafe with firearms, its always America that comes to the fore. Yes they have a gun culture, but most hunters are safe people, not all, but most. Having said that I have met a few English people I wouldn't let loose with a catapult let alone a firearm.
I'm in the same boat. Strangely the most dangerous guns I taken out were from the British armed forces!
 
Accident rates for country drivers will always be higher than the city is not a reason to ban either.
Who said any thing about banning any thing. What is ment if land becomes public. And you have lots of folk out stalking on one patch then there Is more chance of an accident occurring. Like roads. More cars more incidents. It's a sad fact.
 
Do you have a link where I could read up on those accident rates . We do hear of accidents , but I didn't know it was that high . I'm not overly surprised at those numbers though . There are literally millions of hunters in north America . Thanks in advance .

AB[/QUOTE

i just googled how many American hunters got injured whilst hunting and it was the first link to come up
 
I am educated to know where Canada is. Texas heart shot? The amount of "accidents" that occur in the states is staggering. I have met many US service men to back my gun hoe statement. Not all are bad but they do have plenty. AS for an insult to you? you are in Alberta not America, so that leaves you out of my statement
And if thats insulting then tough.

Congrats on your knowledge of geography . I'm not that insulted , just disappointed . I guided for many years and have taken out people of many nationalities . I've seen a few winners over the years from pretty much all of them . One guy from Essex almost blew my guts out when he went to show me his rifle was empty before getting into a vehicle . He was an idiot , 99.9% of UK shooters are intelligent , safe and conscientious shooters . The fact that there are fools out there , I agree 100% , it's the fact that you paint everyone in the states , or anywhere else for that matter , with the same brush that's just wrong , and I'm pretty sure you know it .

AB
 
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