marksmanship(or lack of)

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Most of these animals have been killed with a first shot from a cold barrel, often from an awkward uncomfortable position in poor light and bad weather. What you need to remember is that the heart/lungs kill zone on a deer for example is an 8" circle (approx) which in sniper terms is 4" in any direction of the V bull.... Unacceptable on the range maybe but a kill shot nonetheless.
 
8x57 said:
Richard I suspect that you both actually manipulate the trigger in the same way it is only the words that are used to describe how you manipulate the trigger that differs.


Target shooters are taught to pull the trigger straight back in a gradual controlled manner rather than to squeeze it thereby implying that you could be pulling or pushing it at an angle. While the words used by sporting shooters to instruct other sporting shooters usually include the phrase “squeeze the trigger” to convey the need for a gradual controlled pull. In either case both groups recognise the need for all shooter to develop their trigger control skills if good marksmanship is to be achieved. Just a difference in terminology really which implies different things to different people.
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It was meant as a tongue in cheek comment, hence the smiley.
Cheers
Richard
 
To paraphrase:

"You there - I notice you're all crap shots who don't appear to care about humane deaths. By implication, I, on the other hand, am a superb shot with ice in my veins, a steely professional amongst you bumbling amateurs."

I look forward to his future posts...
 
Mungo said:
To paraphrase:

"You there - I notice you're all crap shots who don't appear to care about humane deaths. By implication, I, on the other hand, am a superb shot with ice in my veins, a steely professional amongst you bumbling amateurs."

I look forward to his future posts...
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Lol exactly what I thought too to be fair occasionally we all mess up a shot but as stated dead is dead ! I really don't see what the op was trying to get at with this thread ??
 
Oh for goodness sake :roll:

The man was only making a comment on some of the photos he saw in the gallery, not questioning our parentage or asking for our first-born, yet suddenly everyone feels compelled to explain how "this is real life, not benchrest". I presume none of the people posting know mintman, yet we all seem ready to pass immediate judgement about the original (and his future) posts.

I can think of several photos in recent weeks alone that have been posted in good faith but have then gone on to receive criticisms about shot placement, so just because the OP expressed an opinion doesn't warrant full scale character assassination.

willie_gunn
 
Dougster said:
Just had a look, a few foxes with their guts out. Could this be the angle of the shots?
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i have shot 100 of foxes and they do have a tendency to unzip, often a chest shot with .243 will end up with the guts hanging out, one thing is for sure they are seldom more than a few feet from where they were shot.
 
neil_r said:
i have shot 100 of foxes and they do have a tendency to unzip, often a chest shot with .243 will end up with the guts hanging out, one thing is for sure they are seldom more than a few feet from where they were shot.
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precisely and the difference may be if the Op is military he won't be used to seeing what expanding bullets do. Foxes particularly with lighter vmax bullets do tend to not look pretty but by the very nature of the amount of damage the shot is extremely humane, a .243 with 58gr vmax doing not far off 4000fps is like using a sledgehammer to crack a nut but it works very well
 
willie_gunn said:
Oh for goodness sake :roll:

The man was only making a comment on some of the photos he saw in the gallery, not questioning our parentage or asking for our first-born, yet suddenly everyone feels compelled to explain how "this is real life, not benchrest". I presume none of the people posting know mintman, yet we all seem ready to pass immediate judgement about the original (and his future) posts.

I can think of several photos in recent weeks alone that have been posted in good faith but have then gone on to receive criticisms about shot placement, so just because the OP expressed an opinion doesn't warrant full scale character assassination.

willie_gunn
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i think it's more the self righteous, holier than though, 'I'm a trained sniper don't you know!' Way the original post reads that has got the hackles up... Perhaps if he had actually shot a deer under testing field conditions (or at all for that matter) he would be qualified to level criticism!

I'm pretty darned sure that if he had ever used his 'trade skills' in theatre 20+ years ago, he wouldn't have gone to check on his shot placement... If the target went down... Job done!

be critical of the photos by all means but reserve judgement until you either know the FULL circumstances surrounding both the shot and the objective of the shooter or you have gained at least a little experience of shooting live quarry!
 
I would suggest a lot is to do with the photos. When comparing the average shot of " me with my deer" compared to professionally taken photos by PHs of their clients and kudu, buffalo etc, most of mine certainly look like road kill with some crazed person grinning above it, whereas the professional ones look as if the beast is alive.

I think application of a few wipes to both the beast and the shooter, particularly around the entry and exit wounds would make a big difference. A 1" exit wound would be hardly noticeable, a 1" exit wound with all the blood and froth around it looks kind of messy.

And as for foxes with guts hanging out, well that's what happens with a varmint bullet. The bullet causes massive internal damage and shock waves often cause the skin to burst.

And the target we aim for is not the shoulder, its actually the junction of he heart and lungs which is inside the body. Save for a bit of meat damage, I am not too worried where the entry and exit wound is, provided that target is hit as it causes a quick and humane kill. If I waited for the perfect broadside shot every time there wouldn't be Vinson on the table. Mostly it's buck steps out, or is sighted, quick decision over whether or not its a cull buck with a good backstop, rifle up on sticks and bang and mostly at a range of 30 to 40 yds.
 
I think he's got up close, pulled the pin, counted to 4 and let us all go off... Not much of a sniper approach, but effective all the same.

Time to move on boys :locked:
 
It probaly depends wheather you may have cull targets too meet.you maybe a trophy hunter and its all about the antlers or you generally dont care.myself i would never shoot the shoulder.text book chestshot is good placement
 
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Oh for goodness sake :roll:

The man was only making a comment on some of the photos he saw in the gallery, not questioning our parentage or asking for our first-born, yet suddenly everyone feels compelled to explain how "this is real life, not benchrest". I presume none of the people posting know mintman, yet we all seem ready to pass immediate judgement about the original (and his future) posts.

I can think of several photos in recent weeks alone that have been posted in good faith but have then gone on to receive criticisms about shot placement, so just because the OP expressed an opinion doesn't warrant full scale character assassination.

willie_gunn


I am with Dom on this.
Mintman was only giving a view on some of the galley shots not suggesting bad shots don't happen.
If he was trying to suggest that if someone experiences a high incidence of misplaced shots then they should try and work out why and work to reduce this I don't think there would be much disagreement.
Neal
 
my word,what a storm,i have read things i apparrently meant but did'nt say in the post so all i can do is clarify,i have neither said or implied i am perfect and everyone else is a bumbling amature,we all make mistakes,my point which has been correctly picked up on by some is that if some of the pics posted represent the norm then maybe a bit more time practicing would not be amiss,also as has been pointed out if you do make a messy shot but dont like critisism dont post the pick because as we can see people viewing will interprit it in their own way.
 
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