Uncle Buck
Well-Known Member
Sounds as though it did go wrong
He held over and the bullet drifted in the wind....he got lucky.
Bragging perhaps !
Maximum Range for Stalking
- Thread starter MK-38
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Sounds as though it did go wrong
He held over and the bullet drifted in the wind....he got lucky.
Bragging perhaps !
Dan Newcombe
Well-Known Member
Still interested to know this range limit that we should be working to, the actual range for everyone not a movable feast based on ability and equipment.
Based on people ability and guests ability I have seen it’s unlikely to exceed 50m off sticks and as we are basing the limit on the lowest common factor that means no one should shoot over 50m meaning that anyone shooting something 100m away is double e best practice distance.
Based on people ability and guests ability I have seen it’s unlikely to exceed 50m off sticks and as we are basing the limit on the lowest common factor that means no one should shoot over 50m meaning that anyone shooting something 100m away is double e best practice distance.
sikamalc
Administrator
8x57
Distinguished Member
Mk-38 the original poster made a major blunder when starting this thread. He titled it "Maximum Range for Stalking" when he should have titled it MAXIMUM RANGE FOR SNIPING DEER, 420 yards isn't stalking it's sniping.
There again we can forgive him as he's new to the site and having only posted four times since he joined on the 1st of April this year. I wonder if the date has any relevance?
There again we can forgive him as he's new to the site and having only posted four times since he joined on the 1st of April this year. I wonder if the date has any relevance?
Perhaps I've misunderstood the anatomy, but I've always considered a side-on neck shot on a stag as trying to hit a hosepipe hidden in a overcoat-sleeve wrapped in a hearthrug. That is to say, a kill-zone that is an awkward and narrow shape, and not straightforward to locate.
From directly behind or in front, there's at least a vertical kill-zone - but it doesn't allow much error for wind.
Even discounting the increased mobility of the neck vs. the chest, I don't think either of those neck-shots is anything like as 'forgiving' as one into the large heart-and-lung area.
howa243
Well-Known Member
I find this slightly odd. I know that you have lots of experience, so will know that abilities will differ as will circumstances. Lets be honest, if people are missing deer at 50 yards they should be having the rifle removed from their fingers and asked politely to remove themselves from the field. I do accept that the need to earn money might make this difficult. However irrespective of the above, the ability to make that shot under discussion, doesn't make it the right thing to do. Least of all, brag about it.
I'm sure this thread is going to get a million different views ranging from "if you can do it then crack on" to "outrageous - shouldnt ever be done".
The fact is that the head and neck are the most mobile part of a deer, and are small targets compared to the chest area. You're increasing your risks of a wounded deer taking head/neck shots, and then increasing them again by pushing the range out.
I would suggest that someone consistently taking longer range (lets say 200y and up) head/neck shots at deer will lose or miss more beasts on average over time than someone who aims to get under 200y engine room shots.
Personally the longest shot I've ever taken is about 250y, in general I aim to get under 200y and prefer engine room shots.
The fact is that the head and neck are the most mobile part of a deer, and are small targets compared to the chest area. You're increasing your risks of a wounded deer taking head/neck shots, and then increasing them again by pushing the range out.
I would suggest that someone consistently taking longer range (lets say 200y and up) head/neck shots at deer will lose or miss more beasts on average over time than someone who aims to get under 200y engine room shots.
Personally the longest shot I've ever taken is about 250y, in general I aim to get under 200y and prefer engine room shots.
Uncle Buck
Well-Known Member
l like your thinking Dalua put one in the engine room if the shot is on.......if not
patience is a virtue wait.
If it’s real close and your capable by all means neck it. but the bigger target is the way to go, just incase an error occurs. We can all make mistakes in the heat of the moment.
foxdropper
Well-Known Member
I would agree with those who say it’s not stalking but I and another member off here know a lad who would do that shot all day long and further .Someone wrote never judge anyone by your own standard and that is the most truth ever written on here .Someone else mentions a shot of 50 m off sticks being max lol ,try 300 no problem .
Im amazed at what modern scopes can see .Ive always had a Zeis ,3x12 on my stalking rifle which has been adequate but recently changed to a decent hawke sidewinder 4x24 and what a difference .
The top end scopes at high mag must be phenomenal and well capable of picking up small targets at 900 plus .
How does a anyone think the 1000 yard shots are done at recognised ranges .
Whether it not to post it on the net is the real issue here ,I guess the guy was elated and wanted to share .He wont be the first or the last for that offence ,hopefully his followers never gave him as much grief as he’s getting here .
Im amazed at what modern scopes can see .Ive always had a Zeis ,3x12 on my stalking rifle which has been adequate but recently changed to a decent hawke sidewinder 4x24 and what a difference .
The top end scopes at high mag must be phenomenal and well capable of picking up small targets at 900 plus .
How does a anyone think the 1000 yard shots are done at recognised ranges .
Whether it not to post it on the net is the real issue here ,I guess the guy was elated and wanted to share .He wont be the first or the last for that offence ,hopefully his followers never gave him as much grief as he’s getting here .
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If you've been to WMS or Orion you'll appreciate what it is to hit a 4" target (less for vital neck hit) with your first shot at 400yds with field conditions. Not saying it's impossible but to do it consistently, and on something as mobile as a deer neck is a challenge... a lot can happen in the half second between pin connecting and bullet strike, even more between the decision to squeeze and bullet strike.
For those who reference snipers in this context; a snipers job is to observe and disrupt. An injured person is far more disruptive to those around them than a dead one. A stalkers purpose is truly quite different.
For those who reference snipers in this context; a snipers job is to observe and disrupt. An injured person is far more disruptive to those around them than a dead one. A stalkers purpose is truly quite different.
No disrespect but shooting any live quarry at 805m is ridiculous. How can you see a safe backstop at that range? crows and magpies too, one only hopes they are not in trees or sitting on fences
And that's not questioning anyone's ability, its a matter of safety more than anything else.
Malcolm,
That's one big assumption
If you can see a RABBIT at 800m, then seeing a backstop really isn't going to be an issue, in fact, it may be far more apparent, than someone shooting in the woods, at 100m ! In this particular situation, the shooting took place in a valley in Derbyshire, shooting from one side to the other, open ground, no trees !
For a group of people, who want to be left alone to enjoy their legal sport, some of you are bloody intolerant of others wanting to do the same thing
howa243
Well-Known Member
I am not one for removing people rights, but 300 yards off sticks on a live quarry is.... well actually I am struggling to describe that one.
Just ludicrous. Nobody is saying that it is not possible to be accurate at that distance and beyond. We all know we can. That is clearly not the point.
Woodsmoke
Well-Known Member
Really? If that's the best they can do they really should be thinking about taking up another past-time . . .
This was 280 yards off sticks with a .270. Absolutely no chance of getting closer as the wind was wrong, and the topography was against me. Personally, I wouldn't want to push things much further than this. I certainly can't imagine trying any shot on live quarry at 420! Mind you, the American prairie dog guys take some pretty long shots as a matter of course. As I've said before, if you're capable of it, using the right kit, and the circumstances are appropriate, then why not?
foxdropper
Well-Known Member
Shooting at range requires confidence in both the kit and ability ,one can’t operate without the other so when these two are present what’s to stop anyone from utilising it in the field .Im no long range shooter by any means but I’ve shot a stag in the chest at 280 and never gave it a second thought .Shot Cwd at 320 with the 243 both witnessed .
No bragging involved and no followers to impress just facts .Would I do it again yes ,would I do it often no .
Modern kit is made for this **** ,it’s us that restricts the range to keep humane dispatch to the max and for most lads the stalk is everything ,the kill an end result .
Woodsmoke
Well-Known Member
foxdropper
Well-Known Member
Ok mate ,well just stick to your own way of doing things and I do same with no loss of sleep. The advent of quad sticks changed my shooting beyond anything I could of imagined using just the doubles which I was pretty good off anyway .
Again don’t judge anyone by your own standard because it makes you look stupid ,been there done that and had my eyes opened to another level .
These are interesting arguments, but I don't think they are compelling.
First, the prudence of shooting at 420yds is not being questioned because the animal which is the subject of the post was not killed. In fact, had it not been killed, there would probably have been no initial FB post - so there'd have been nothing to discuss with respect to this or any other social-media long-range-kill post. In fact, that needs to be kept in mind when considering this phenomenon: no-one posts the longer-range shots where they've wounded or missed.
The prudence of such long-range shooting is being questioned because of increased chance of wounding a) at longer-than-usual range, and b) at such long range, with a neck-shot. This is because, although none of us knows the competence at shooting, wind-reading etc of the poster, or the quality of his gear, we know that the risk of foul-ups because of shooting-, wind-reading- or equipment- errors increases markedly at ranges further than 'normal' (let's say 200-300yds max) - to say nothing of the animal's moving between the decision to fire and the strike.
Personally, I have missed completely at 50yds also. I wouldn't nowadays, I hope - but then I've learnt to shoot better and practised a lot since then.
In summary, the greater the range, the greater the risk of all-cause foul-ups, and the harder to rescue those foul-ups with a second shot. 'How far is too far?' must, I suppose, always remain a personal thing to a great extent - but as someone who shoots a good deal at the target at longer ranges, my maximum quarry-range is much shorter than 420yds; the biggest problem being the wind, IMO.
Others may appraise their skills (one hopes, accurately and honestly) as allowing them to take reliably-humane longer-range shots.
I'm not sure there's much more I can say than that.
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Yes, way out to beyond a mile if you know what to do with it.
But just like buying a car that can go 400km/h, can doesn't mean should!
If you can shoot very accurate out to those ranges then fair play you must be an excellent shot, but I just think on live quarry there is just such a higher risk of wounding an animal.
I suppose everyone has there own opinion. If I was in a situation where I couldn’t get any closer then I just wouldn’t take the shot, certainly not a neck shot.
I suppose everyone has there own opinion. If I was in a situation where I couldn’t get any closer then I just wouldn’t take the shot, certainly not a neck shot.
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