Maximum Range for Stalking

[Tulloch]

Furthest I’m shooting at the moment is across the living room with my sons nerf gun!

All head and neck shots.... Practice makes perfect.

max range 20ft baby

assaulting the mrs with a nerf gun is dangerous lol

 

[foxdropper]

We really should get an airgun challenge of some sort going .Couple of quid each for charity or see other thread .

 

[AN DU RU FOX]

laccy bands and paper clips

 

[Tulloch]

That's interesting.
The bullet clearly lacked the oomph at that range to get all the way through the neck, but nevertheless expanded just fine - which is reassuring given the relatively-low impact velocity - perhaps about 2100fps? Standard softpoints are designed to behave that I think.

I'd always imagined that a bullet would expand more at a higher impact velocity, and less at a lower: and I'm not sure I follow the argument that the expansion of the bullet is independent of the forces which act on it as it passes through the animal. I'd have thought that had the bullet hit at a higher velocity, the force acting on it as it struck and on its way through would have been greater, and therefore the deformation would have been greater also - though you wouldn't have found most of the bullet, as it would have passed all the way through?

bullets have recommended velocity both max and minimum , reports on different bullet makes some expand too quick and some dont expand at all, depends on tha manufacturer , Sierra Prohunters are specific for medium velocity between 2100fps and 3200fps

 

[Tulloch]

We really should get an airgun challenge of some sort going .Couple of quid each for charity or see other thread .

that would be fun

 

[James0586]

It’s called isolation!
I’m taking more hits to the head from the angry little 6 year old who’s gun I’m using! My house is like Afghan at present my both sons (6 + 11) have more guns than the f@#£&ing terminator....

The wife’s response was it’s your own fault! FFS cut a man a break

 

[MK-38]

Apologies

I did not realise that the individual who made that post was a forum member. I did not mean to cause any offence.

Everyone is open to there own opinions on taking shots at range depending on there experience ,equipment and conditions.

Maybe the admin should close this post as I think the topic has been well discussed and points put across.

 

[Matt Roberts]

But you describe it as irresponsible?

I wouldn’t call it irresponsible... more misjudged. I’ll take the .223 next time and leave the HMR In the cabinet

 

[Tulloch]

Apologies

I did not realise that the individual who made that post was a forum member. I did not mean to cause any offence.

Everyone is open to there own opinions on taking shots at range depending on there experience ,equipment and conditions.

Maybe the admin should close this post as I think the topic has been well discussed and points put across.

I have no issue with you Highlighting this , I actually welcome admin to keep it open , it is a topic that needs discussed.

We preach Best Practice in here and I totally agree with it but there are occasions where real world decisions have to be made and those making them should be responsible for it and I am happy to do that.

It should NOT matter who is a member of where,.

 

[Dalua]

bullets have recommended velocity both max and minimum , reports on different bullet makes some expand too quick and some dont expand at all, depends on tha manufacturer , Sierra Prohunters are specific for medium velocity between 2100fps and 3200fps

Quite so. That's why plain old softpoints remain IMO a sensible and reliable choice for use in normal cartridges for normal game - where lead's permitted, of course.
The point I'm interested to hear more about is the suggestion that they expand more at lower velocities than at higher.

 

[Tulloch]

It’s called isolation!
I’m taking more hits to the head from the angry little 6 year old who’s gun I’m using! My house is like Afghan at present my both sons (6 + 11) have more guns than the f@#£&ing terminator....

The wife’s response was it’s your own fault! FFS cut a man a break

trust the wife to take the kids side lol

 

[Tulloch]

Quite so. That's why plain old softpoints remain IMO a sensible and reliable choice for use in normal cartridges for normal game - where lead's permitted, of course.
The point I'm interested to hear more about is the suggestion that they expand more at lower velocities than at higher.

.270's that shoot too fast a bullet have this problem with soft points for example if your load allows you to shoot a 130gr softpoint at 3400fps , at 100yrds it may not expand at all and just go straight through.

Do the experiment with slower cartridges , shoot an empty coke ( other brands are available) can at 100yrds with a .17hmr and it will go straight through and the can and the can will not even move and no expansion on the 17's bullet at all but take a .22lr sub sonic at the same range and the bullet will expand knock the can open with a larger exit than entrance.

 

[Matt Roberts]

Quite so. That's why plain old softpoints remain IMO a sensible and reliable choice for use in normal cartridges for normal game - where lead's permitted, of course.
The point I'm interested to hear more about is the suggestion that they expand more at lower velocities than at higher.

That was what sparked my interest, I just got distracted by the noise about the range. I’ve since switched from factory Norma’s to 120gr Barnes TTSX. Pretty sure the velocity at that range wouldn’t be sufficient to expand the head that much... but if I clean neck shot it I guess it wouldn’t need to.

 

[Dalua]

.270's that shoot too fast a bullet have this problem with soft points for example if your load allows you to shoot a 130gr softpoint at 3400fps , at 100yrds it may not expand at all and just go straight through.

It seems extraordinary that the bullet that deformed so well at 2100fps should fail to deform significantly at 3400fps. You wouldn't be telling us this if you'd not experienced it, but it does surprise me.
The only rifle/load with which I've ever had problems with lack of expansion has been 120gr plastic-pointed Norma and 140gr RWS loads in a short-barrelled 6.5x55. The problem there was, I think, that the lack of barrel-length left them going far too slowly.

Do the experiment with slower cartridges , shoot an empty coke ( other brands are available) can at 100yrds with a .17hmr and it will go straight through and the can and the can will not even move and no expansion on the 17's bullet at all but take a .22lr sub sonic at the same range and the bullet will expand knock the can open with a larger exit than entrance.

I'm not sure I can extrapolate anything useful from that experiment to the realm of centrefire rifles and deer.

 

[MAH]

I just don’t understand why anyone would even attempt a neck shot at 420 yards

Maybe he got "feet" a "yards" mixed up on his range finder....?

 

[Tulloch]

It seems extraordinary that the bullet that deformed so well at 2100fps should fail to deform significantly at 3400fps. You wouldn't be telling us this if you'd not experienced it, but it does surprise me.
The only rifle/load with which I've ever had problems with lack of expansion has been 120gr plastic-pointed Norma and 140gr RWS loads in a short-barrelled 6.5x55. The problem there was, I think, that the lack of barrel-length left them going far too slowly.

Experienced this on Roes and some Sika but mostly foxes , the bullet going straight through with little or no expansion at all shown in the animal and in fact making them run considerably, had foxes where the exit was more or less the same size as the entry wound, showing little or no expansion. I have to admit that was on 110 Vmax running at near on 3900fps probably far too fast for the softer animals.

Dont get me wrong too fast can cause premature expansion like the SST's have a bad name for so it works both ways although I did like them for a long time, I guess it is all about running your bullets between the recommended speeds for that bullet choice.

Look at steel target ratings for certain calibres and what the recommended distance they are for.

I also think if your chosen bullet is running too slow it wont expand too.

One thing I love learning about is Ballistic coefficiences on bullets, that is not always down to size and defo does not have anything to do with speed. For instance a 140gr bullet flying at 2650fps can out perform a 130gr bullet flying at 2950fps at long range , I spose its not some voodoo or magic its science.

 

[Primate]

Hats off to @Tulloch. Good on you for standing your corner. I haven't ever had the need to shoot deer at long range. Foxes and crows I have. A 420 yard carrion on a still day would be a fairly easy shot. To be honest even in field conditions with wind it's a very simple shot with addition of a Kestrel. Alot of the people who make all of the noise haven't a clue about rifles ad their true capabilities. They already have preconceptions and that's that! I've seen a few unbelievably bad rifle shots over the years. I'd would happily shoot deer at 420 yards over some I've seen taking the shot at 100.

 

[Dalua]

To be honest even in field conditions with wind it's a very simple shot with addition of a Kestrel.

It's worth keeping in mind that it is far from always the case that the wind is the same over the whole 420yds between the firer and the targets as it is where you've measured it on the firing-point.

 

[Highfield]

Apologies

I did not realise that the individual who made that post was a forum member. I did not mean to cause any offence.

Everyone is open to there own opinions on taking shots at range depending on there experience ,equipment and conditions.

Maybe the admin should close this post as I think the topic has been well discussed and points put across.

No publicity is bad publicity for some especially if you need to fill dozens of syndicate places each year. It was pretty obviously posted just to cause controversy in the first place so I wouldn't worry about the fact that you shared it. It has been a useful eye opener on the way deer are treated by some especially in scotland.

 

[Mickeydredd]

Dont get me wrong too fast can cause premature expansion

Never had that problem personally......