Moderator damage - is this normal?

[levigsp]

Any thoughts on whether this will begin to affect accuracy? It seems fine just now but what’s likely to happen as it gets worse?

No it wont.

 

[ejg]

Edi I was told by a professional who uses and services moderators extensively that moderators can actually become more effective as they "gum up". They used to strip their moderators regularly to clean but now instead just use them for a set period and replace them with new on an exchange basis with the manufacturer. Personally I can't help myself and strip mine down and clean it after use. Mine is one of the heavier older types with a stainless steel first baffle that takes the initial blast of hot gasses.

I also believe they get a bit quieter when they have a layer of gum in them. Pete from Roedale also mentioned that. Some of the older alu mods broke more from taking apart than if one left them as is until dead or too loud. I have quite a few mods and have not managed to completely shoot one out. I have one of the very early alu mods, a prototype that weighs only 175grams with 5 baffles which has been used on a 308 for over ten years (ten years sprayed with WD40) and still works fine. I guess if I take that apart it would go in the bin.
My first 22lr I also cleaned after every outing until I found out they shoot better if you leave them. One learns on the go.
edi

 

[Woodsy]

From twenty odd years of using firearms the world over, watching those gunked up with WD40 fail. A few trial and industry days with manufacturers. All reccomending using non water based oils for lubrication and non water based penetrating oils for cleaning. Will it make things look clean yes. Will it leave a residue yes.

Feel free to use what you want, no skin of my nose it's not my money.

I only use wd40 on the mod, never on the rifle.

 

[Woodsy]

No it wont.

Thanks, that’s what I was hoping someone would say.

 

[Miki]

All other baffles look fine. No damage.
I only use WD40 as that was what Steve Beatty at Ivythorne advised me to use to clean the moderator when I bought it.
<snip>

Could be that the alloy coating on the exit hole was damaged.

WD40 on an anodised aluminium moderator is fine. As a solvent it will clean off the grime, and the grease out of the threads and eat the rubber seals, other than that it won't cause any damage. It isn't kind to the rest of the firearm though and being a penetrant will seep into the wooden stock, degrease and gum up the trigger, firing pin, magazine catch etc etc....

 

[Edinburgh Rifles]

I have read this on a previous thread here. However my AES Utra instructions for maintenace clearly state that WD40 should be used to spray through the sound moderator.

This paperwork is issued by the importer NOT the manufacturer
I wouldn't use WD40 due to the way it hardens in a much thicker layer than I am comfortable with
The residue accumulates carbon and can form a hard surface building up to occlude the bore

There is a difference between normal carbon residue which can work in a beneficial way to sound attentuation, and a solid layer of mm's rather than Thou"


The erosion in the baffle is normal if extreme
it will impact accuracy over time as the hole is no longer round and the gas pressure between bullet and bore will be variable depending on the gap
whether it becomes noticeable is debatable

 

[Woodsy]

Could be that the alloy coating on the exit hole was damaged.

WD40 on an anodised aluminium moderator is fine. As a solvent it will clean off the grime, and the grease out of the threads and eat the rubber seals, other than that it won't cause any damage. It isn't kind to the rest of the firearm though and being a penetrant will seep into the wooden stock, degrease and gum up the trigger, firing pin, magazine catch etc etc....

It’s only the mod that gets the WD40, never the rifle. Yes, perhaps you are right about the coating. I’ve emailed Alan Rhone about this, will see what he says. It may be that I need to buy another end baffle. I’ll update here when I’ve heard back from him.

 

[Woodsy]

This paperwork is issued by the importer NOT the manufacturer
I wouldn't use WD40 due to the way it hardens in a much thicker layer than I am comfortable with
The residue accumulates carbon and can form a hard surface building up to occlude the bore

There is a difference between normal carbon residue which can work in a beneficial way to sound attentuation, and a solid layer of mm's rather than Thou"


The erosion in the baffle is normal if extreme
it will impact accuracy over time as the hole is no longer round and the gas pressure between bullet and bore will be variable depending on the gap
whether it becomes noticeable is debatable

So far there’s no noticeable affect on accuracy. I’ll keep an eye on this though, and may well buy another baffle soon anyway if they are available to buy. Cheers.

 

[levigsp]

Could be that the alloy coating on the exit hole was damaged.

WD40 on an anodised aluminium moderator is fine. As a solvent it will clean off the grime, and the grease out of the threads and eat the rubber seals, other than that it won't cause any damage. It isn't kind to the rest of the firearm though and being a penetrant will seep into the wooden stock, degrease and gum up the trigger, firing pin, magazine catch etc etc....

So, may I ask which moderators use rubber seals? as I don't know of any.

 

[Miki]

So, may I ask which moderators use rubber seals? as I don't know of any.

DPT, one on every baffle.
DM80 (front and rear) ... Wildcat (diffusers) - predator, panther and evolution

 

[Jelen]

This paperwork is issued by the importer NOT the manufacturer
I wouldn't use WD40 due to the way it hardens in a much thicker layer than I am comfortable with
The residue accumulates carbon and can form a hard surface building up to occlude the bore

There is a difference between normal carbon residue which can work in a beneficial way to sound attentuation, and a solid layer of mm's rather than Thou"


The erosion in the baffle is normal if extreme
it will impact accuracy over time as the hole is no longer round and the gas pressure between bullet and bore will be variable depending on the gap
whether it becomes noticeable is debatable

OK, I didn't realise that the importer inserted the instructions.
So what would your recommendation be for use in an ASE Utra please?

 

[Tony Morgan]

This is what Will at Barton Gunworks advises for their mods, in answer to my question:

I have an Accurate Hunter moderator on my Mauser M12 .243 and am happy with it. On the Stalking Directory I see a lot of discussion about cleaning moderators and/or spraying the inside with WD40. As my mod is not strippable, do you recommend that I use WD40 or any other lubricant/solvent on it?

On 6 Apr 2020 13:23, picatinny rail uk gunsmith custom accessories and rifle moderators <enquiries@bartongunworks.com> wrote:

Tony it absolutely doesn't need cleaning just leave well alone itself scavengers every time you take a shot

Paul Hill at Corinium rifle range has had over 15000 rounds of 308 though one and never cleaned it and it's still fine

 

[kennyc]

OK, I didn't realise that the importer inserted the instructions.
So what would your recommendation be for use in an ASE Utra please?

I too have always used WD40 on the inside of my ASE Utra, as recommended by the paperwork that came with it and the dealer who sold it to me, I have never seen any buildup from WD40 on anything I have ever used it on ?
I have seen mods that have rotted out from internal corrosion, and as far as I know none of them had ever been anywhere near WD40.
a quick google on the subject throws up a few worldwide recommendations to use WD40 on ASE Utras, so it maybe that ASE were the original source of the advice and that importers have just been passing the advice on?

 

[levigsp]

DPT, one on every baffle.
DM80 (front and rear) ... Wildcat (diffusers) - predator, panther and evolution

They are not rubber! Rubber is dissolved by petroleum and mineral oils. The seals are made from silicone rubber, which is not rubber at all.[actually a double polymer of silicone] it has replaced rubber in auto motive industry as it is Acid, Petroleum and other chemical resistant.

 

[Edinburgh Rifles]

I equate cleaning moderators to cleaning the brake discs on your car....

if you want to stop crystaline formation on the baffles use a quick squirt of light oil down the bore of the mod
or a bore brush with a squirt of oil on it in and out once or twice

Do not try this on your brake discs....

 

[jb1]

I've not read all the posts, but its 100% gas cutting, i have no idea what the mod is made of but my money is on alli.
They are OK for little use stalking for the odd few shots a week. They certainly wont last as long as something like a Jet z but then they only weigh half as much.

 

[Jelen]

I too have always used WD40 on the inside of my ASE Utra, as recommended by the paperwork that came with it and the dealer who sold it to me, I have never seen any buildup from WD40 on anything I have ever used it on ?
I have seen mods that have rotted out from internal corrosion, and as far as I know none of them had ever been anywhere near WD40.
a quick google on the subject throws up a few worldwide recommendations to use WD40 on ASE Utras, so it maybe that ASE were the original source of the advice and that importers have just been passing the advice on?

You may well be right and I intend to e-mail AES and get confirmation from them. If I get a response - one way or the other - I will post it on here.

 

[Woodsy]

I've not read all the posts, but its 100% gas cutting, i have no idea what the mod is made of but my money is on alli.
They are OK for little use stalking for the odd few shots a week. They certainly wont last as long as something like a Jet z but then they only weigh half as much.

Could you please explain how you can be 100% sure it’s gas cutting? I’ve had a response from Alan Rhone - he says, and I quote ‘I have never seen that kind of damage that far from the muzzle and I don’t believe it is normal flame erosion’.

 

[Rusty Gate]

They are not rubber! Rubber is dissolved by petroleum and mineral oils. The seals are made from silicone rubber, which is not rubber at all.[actually a double polymer of silicone] it has replaced rubber in auto motive industry as it is Acid, Petroleum and other chemical resistant.

Just like tyres contain no rubber, its all silica's & compounds.

 

[Woodsy]

So just to update on this. Alan Rhone has got back to me very quickly, as is always the case. I’ve always received prompt replies whenever I’ve been in touch with him or his staff; excellent customer service and very polite, helpful and professional.

He has said that he cannot make an assessment on the moderator issue from the photos alone, and said I should take rifle and mod to Steve Beatty so he can investigate barrel alignment and see the moderator first hand. Depending on Steve’s assessment it may then be necessary to get the rifle sent on to Alan from there so he can investigate further.

They are now closed due to C19, so this can’t happen until things are back to normal.

The rifle shoots fine and is accurate. The rest of the moderator is in very good condition. Part of me thinks it has got to be simply erosion from the rifle being fired, and that I should simply accept it and either buy a new moderator or a new baffle for the end of my current one, (Alan says this might be an option but he’s never ordered an end baffle on its own before). But I’ll be the first to admit I know very little about any of this and if Alan Rhone says he’s never seen this before and suggests I get the rifle and moderator properly examined then perhaps that’s what I should do.

Edited to add that Alan also made it clear that cleaning the moderator the way I have been is not the way to go. In his words -

‘I must also point out that it is not recommended to dismantle the moderator and clean as you are doing. The moderator comes apart so that baffles can be added or replaced but the manufacturer does not recommend that is cleaned. This is completely unnecessary and actually reduces the effectiveness of the moderator. In normal use the moderator acquires a layer of carbon over the internal parts and this makes it quieter.’