MRAD, MOA, Ballistic turrets and BDCs!

[BlueJuice]

Loosely looking for my first hunting optic as I await my FAC to come through. No major rush but will snag something if it comes up at the right price and fits the bill.

However there's a fair bit of choice out there so just trying to get a bit of clarity on what the right thing might look like. Hunting will be on varied terrain so need an all rounder, likely something like a 40 or 44mm lens and top end magnification of say 9-12x SFP. Looking mainly second hand at the moment with a budget of around £400.

I very much think in metric and have previously used MRAD sights with BDC reticles. An MRAD scope seems like it would be a better option but there doesnt seem to be much available if im honest. There seems to be a steady supply of pretty decent looking used Leupold scopes about but these seem almost entirely MOA.

Looking at new scopes an ideal fit looks to be something like this Vortex Viper HD 3-15×44 but unfortunately is outside of what im looking to spend right now.

Can i just confirm a few things:

Do you need to be thinking in yards for a MOA BDC reticle?
For an MOA scoep with ballistic turret - is it just a case of when its zeroed I can think in metres again by calculating what each click is in metric?
Any recommendations of specific models to keep an eye out for that will fit the bill?

Cheers guys!

 

[Rory]

You could do a lot worse than this - SH-4 4-16X50 GEN2 FFP Illuminated Reticle with Zero Stop - 34mm Tube

Mil or MOA is not a drama, just be sure to match the reticle with the turrets - which most scopes are these days. It was a bizarre choice to pair MOA turrets with a mil reticle.

I wouldn't wed myself to thinking mils are more compatible with 100m increments or MOA with 100yd increments, your adjustments for range will vary depending on muzzle velocity, bullet weight, BC etc, so it is more understanding the trajectory for your rifle, bullet and scope set up.

 

[BlueJuice]

You could do a lot worse than this - SH-4 4-16X50 GEN2 FFP Illuminated Reticle with Zero Stop - 34mm Tube

Mil or MOA is not a drama, just be sure to match the reticle with the turrets - which most scopes are these days. It was a bizarre choice to pair MOA turrets with a mil reticle.

I wouldn't wed myself to thinking mils are more compatible with 100m increments or MOA with 100yd increments, your adjustments for range will vary depending on muzzle velocity, bullet weight, BC etc, so it is more understanding the trajectory for your rifle, bullet and scope set up.

Thanks bud, seems Arken are pretty well regarded - Time to watch some reviews i think!

The only thing that puts me off is its FFP where ive been recommended SFP for hunting... not sure if it has much real world difference though. That and the reticle looks very busy.

Great price point though and definitely worth me looking into

 

[Mungo]

You’re overthinking it.

It only really becomes relevant if you’re using your reticule as a range estimation tool.

Since almost everyone now uses a rangefinder, it doesn’t matter for hunting, at all, whether your reticule and/or turrets are moa or mrad.

Once you have an accurate range to the target, then you just need to know the number of clicks to adjust for your particular set up. Easiest way to do that is to have them taped to the scope.

Everything else is completely unnecessary complication for hunting.

 

[BlueJuice]

You’re overthinking it.

It only really becomes relevant if you’re using your reticule as a range estimation tool.

Since almost everyone now uses a rangefinder, it doesn’t matter for hunting, at all, whether your reticule and/or turrets are moa or mrad.

Once you have an accurate range to the target, then you just need to know the number of clicks to adjust for your particular set up. Easiest way to do that is to have them taped to the scope.

Everything else is completely unnecessary complication for hunting.

Thanks Mungo, that actually makes a lot of sense, for some reason i was having a tough time wrapping my head around it. Certainly opens a lot more options up!

 

[Rory]

Thanks bud, seems Arken are pretty well regarded - Time to watch some reviews i think!

The only thing that puts me off is its FFP where ive been recommended SFP for hunting... not sure if it has much real world difference though. That and the reticle looks very busy.

Great price point though and definitely worth me looking into

The biggest thing against SFP reticles is that they stay the same size no matter the magnification. A FFP reticle will increase and decrease in proportion to magnification, meaning any mil or MOA marks will remain correct in relation to the target.
Let's say, having worked out your range and adjustments, you know that from a 100m dead zero you need to adjust .5mil or 5 clicks (if the clicks are .1mil) up to impact POA/POI at 200m. With a FFP reticle, you can then just aim off .5mil.
With a SFP reticle you will need to adjust using the elevation turret.

The down side to a FFP reticle is that at low magnification it can almost disappear as it decreases in size in direct relation to the target, and at high magnification it can obscure a smaller target as it has now increased in size with increase in magnification.

For stalking, a simple, clean reticle is probably better unless you are familiar with the busier target/sniper type reticle, and SFP won't make much of a difference.
However, if you wanted to use your rifle for some longer range target style shooting, you might soon wish you had a FFP type reticle.

As you mention, do plenty of research of different reticles and focal planes on YT and you'll start to get a feel for what you'd prefer to have on your rifle.

 

[Rory]

This graphic illustrates the difference between the two and their relationship to magnification.

 

[Mungo]

You’re overthinking it.

It only really becomes relevant if you’re using your reticule as a range estimation tool.

Since almost everyone now uses a rangefinder, it doesn’t matter for hunting, at all, whether your reticule and/or turrets are moa or mrad.

Once you have an accurate range to the target, then you just need to know the number of clicks to adjust for your particular set up. Easiest way to do that is to have them taped to the scope.

Everything else is completely unnecessary complication for hunting.

Any mid range scope in the 3-9 or 4-16 x44 or x 50 bracket will do. Vortex, Leupold, Sightron all work really well.

Keep the reticule as simple as possible. I’d happily just use a classic duplex.

There is very little need for anything complicated until you’re competition target shooting at 500 metres and beyond.

The whole SFP v FFP is totally academic: you really won’t notice which you have in almost every context.

I have one of each, and honestly couldn’t tell you it has ever made the slightest difference to any shot I’ve ever taken.

 

[Heym SR20]

Keep it simple. If all your stalking is close range - 100 or so yards / metres, then zero you rifle to be bang on at 100 metres. If you are on more open ground and bigger deer then set the sights about 4cm high at 100. Case length of 243 or 308 is 51mm so 4cm is about the shoulder.

This will mean the rifle will within a couple of inches of point of aim (if you do your bit) out to a bit over 200m, although the exact drops are dependent on bullet BC and launch velocity, but in the vast majority of stalking cartridges the difference is pretty minimal.

This means that within most normal stalking distances you can just simple concentrate on aiming into the centre of the kill zone.

Turrets, complex reticles etc are fine on the range, or in the hands of an experienced stalker / sniper. With a novice you should focus on getting as close as possible.

 

[Stalker-of-the-deer]

Your over thinking it

Its exactly the same concept just diffrent units. I use them Interchangeably but that comes with experience.

Mrad and Mills are an easier concept for people to understand a 1 mill is 1M at 1km so at 0.1km (100m) its 100mm (10cm) (power of 10 easy to work with)

Moa is the same concept just in yards but and moa 1/60th of a degree so not quite an inch at 100. Adjustment takes a little more thinking.

Most European scopes are 1cm at 100m (milrad) america 1/4 MOA at 100 yards