Nature is cruel.

[8x57]

About five or six weeks ago I noticed that some wood pigeons had set up a nest in the fork of a tree roughly 15 feet away from the window of my reloading room. Along with my six year old granddaughter I've watched the hen sit on the nest and hatch a single squab and monitored the gradual development of the squab to the point where it was just about ready to leave the nest. Every time my granddaughter visited we had to go and take a peek at the nest to see how "my" pigeon was coming along. (My granddaughter did correct me- "pigeons don't belong to any one, they're wild bampi". )

Then Sunday morning as I'm preparing lunch I hear a tremendous racket outside and go to investigate to find a mob of 11 or 12 magpies, I lost count, attacking the nest with the squab nowhere to be seen. I scared them off but later on found the squab on the ground stone dead having suffered numerous penetrating pecks to the chest.

I know that it's only natural and that nature can be so very cruel but is is normal for me to now harbour such murderous thoughts towards certain birds that will only be satisfied when I have a line of twelve of them hanging on my garden fence.

 

[Woodsmoke]

Yes, I agree. We have an increasing population of jays and magpies next to us, and I take each and every opportunity I get to kill them. I would hate to be responsible for wiping them out entirely, but if can eradicate the majority of them I don't think I'd be judged overly-harshly

 

[John Gryphon]

Natures tough for some.

 

[mealiejimmy]

Cruelty is a human concept that doesn't really apply to animals.
I think describing nature as indifferent would be more accurate.

Cheers

Bruce

 

[deerstalker.308]

About five or six weeks ago I noticed that some wood pigeons had set up a nest in the fork of a tree roughly 15 feet away from the window of my reloading room. Along with my six year old granddaughter I've watched the hen sit on the nest and hatch a single squab and monitored the gradual development of the squab to the point where it was just about ready to leave the nest. Every time my granddaughter visited we had to go and take a peek at the nest to see how "my" pigeon was coming along. (My granddaughter did correct me- "pigeons don't belong to any one, they're wild bampi". )

Then Sunday morning as I'm preparing lunch I hear a tremendous racket outside and go to investigate to find a mob of 11 or 12 magpies, I lost count, attacking the nest with the squab nowhere to be seen. I scared them off but later on found the squab on the ground stone dead having suffered numerous penetrating pecks to the chest.

I know that it's only natural and that nature can be so very cruel but is is normal for me to now harbour such murderous thoughts towards certain birds that will only be satisfied when I have a line of twelve of them hanging on my garden fence.

One for sorrow, two for joy, 12 for a job well done.

 

[devon deer stalker]

The wife and I noticed a wood pigeon whilst out for a walk, it couldn't fly, at first I assumed it had a broken wing, until I looked closer, I believe it had been attacked by a Sparrow Hawk (we have lots on our village) a large open wound, wriggling with maggots, yes nature can be cruel.

 

[gixer1]

Cruelty is a human concept that doesn't really apply to animals.
I think describing nature as indifferent would be more accurate.

Cheers

Bruce

I see what you are getting at but having observed cats playing with prey before killing them and also killer whales doing the same with dead seals I wonder if there is an element of cruelty.

regards,
Gixer

 

[nun_hunter]

I see what you are getting at but having observed cats playing with prey before killing them and also killer whales doing the same with dead seals I wonder if there is an element of cruelty.

regards,
Gixer

Which is why i always find it ironic when people describe hunters as cruel.

Humans are the only living animal that actively try to kill prey/food/pests in the most humane way possible with the least amount of suffering (apart from obviously a few psychos who enjoy suffering but they are in a very tiny minority)

 

[gixer1]

Which is why i always find it ironic when people describe hunters as cruel.

Humans are the only living animal that actively try to kill prey/food/pests in the most humane way possible with the least amount of suffering (apart from obviously a few psychos who enjoy suffering but they are in a very tiny minority)

Very good point! Chimpanzees will murder other apes/monkeys over territory, I’ve seen a stag gore a hind to death because she wouldn’t let him have his way…and recent videos of a deer stomping a BoP into the ground recently show that it’s not always just to get away - it’s completely obliterating something!

 

[old keeper]

I think the biggest difference between human animals and the others is that they have no real conception of death as we do. Pain and suffering is again a human thing, our overdeveloped brains analyse and feel things in a way animals never can. Over the years I have seen things in nature that humans could never stand but animals come through it. I don't think you can compare us and what we call animals.

 

[LuckyEddie]

Yep I try and keep the number of magpies down having watched them raid numerous house martin nests, pigeon nests and take umpteen blackbird fledglings.
It’s trying to get the townies to see this and accepting is the hardest part, including my wife and daughters!

 

[mealiejimmy]

I see what you are getting at but having observed cats playing with prey before killing them and also killer whales doing the same with dead seals I wonder if there is an element of cruelty.

regards,
Gixer

Until we can, in the words of the song "talk to the animals" we're unlikely ever to know.

Cheers

Bruce

 

[Rory]

The sooner adults stop anthropomorphisising the better really.

 

[nun_hunter]

I see what you are getting at but having observed cats playing with prey before killing them and also killer whales doing the same with dead seals I wonder if there is an element of cruelty.

regards,
Gixer

I always assumed it was more for practice. The same way a female big cat will bring back live prey for her cubs.

Most animals don't have a concept of their own mortality or being self aware and so they are hardly likely to be aware of another animal's "feelings".

 

[gixer1]

I always assumed it was more for practice. The same way a female big cat will bring back live prey for her cubs.

Most animals don't have a concept of their own mortality or being self aware and so they are hardly likely to be aware of another animal's "feelings".

Cats will do it when just by themselves…so the training thing seems less likely in that scenario…

 

[bogtrotter]

Cats will do it when just by themselves…so the training thing seems less likely in that scenario…

As will a fox , a fox will hunt for sport even when he
Isn't hungry, ever watched a fox waiting for a tunneling mole to break the surface he will pounce like a cat play catch the mole just as it appears play with it a minute or two then walk away leaving the body lying.

 

[mealiejimmy]

As will a fox , a fox will hunt for sport even when he
Isn't hungry, ever watched a fox waiting for a tunneling mole to break the surface he will pounce like a cat play catch the mole just as it appears play with it a minute or two then walk away leaving the body lying.

I think using the word "play" falls into the same category as "cruelty"
I simply don't think you can attribute human concepts such as "play" to an animal
The biggest thing the antis have going for them is their ability to anthrpomorphise animal behaviour and appearances to make people think that blood sports should be banned
We shouldn't fall into the same trap - although that can be hard with a well loved pet animal

Cheers

Bruce

 

[steve sxs]

Cruelty is a human concept that doesn't really apply to animals.
I think describing nature as indifferent would be more accurate.

Cheers

Bruce

Common sense is a wonderful thing

 

[foxdropper]

I think using the word "play" falls into the same category as "cruelty"
I simply don't think you can attribute human concepts such as "play" to an animal
The biggest thing the antis have going for them is their ability to anthrpomorphise animal behaviour and appearances to make people think that blood sports should be banned
We shouldn't fall into the same trap - although that can be hard with a well loved pet animal

Cheers

Bruce

I’d say play is exactly what it is and cruelty as we see it does not fit in anywhere in the animal kingdom .
I watched a fox ,quite an elderly fox play on its own with a plastic bottle throwing it up in the air and then looking for it ,no food involved nor cubs so what was it ?
Also seen the aftermath of a fox going through a hen house ,maimed birds ,headless birds and half eaten birds but nothing rivals the rat in what we term as cruelty .Eating prey alive pulled through bars and rat culture has to be one of the most savage on earth ,certainly on this continent .
I agree we shouldn’t give animals human attributes but it’s hard to describe some behaviour without referring to what we know .
For a predator ,food is everything second only to breeding and all predators will go to astonishing lengths to get by and if it means starting a meal before the preys expired then so be it ,raptors a classic example .Bar rats most smaller predators are hard wired to kill before eating ,I think to avoid being harmed which to some would be a death sentence but hunger ,inexperience will override that on occasion .We used to have a flight pond that was plagued by a mink that ate the back end of our ducks just enough to leave then alive ,gruesome .Caught up with it with the terriers eventually quite by accident while ratting .Had the bugger on trail cam hold a duck and eating the back end with the victim quacking it’s head off .

 

[John Gryphon]

I watched a doco one time that showed a cape buff buried in mud up to his sides,then lions discovered him and worked out very quickly that it was quite safe to eat him alive and that was through his freckle. The moans emitted by the buff I still well remember as quite the effn horrible soundtrack but then its 'nature' and its ways.
The below pic`s illustrate somewhat as to what also happens in 'nature' that some perceive as 'cruel' but in fact its everyday life in the world of predator and prey.