New FAC application - Met Police

[Erik Hamburger]

As far as your FAC application is concerned you're doing everything right. (Keeping a log, records, evidence of experience etc.) and you'll have 'good reason'. To that I would add to always communicate with any Police Force by way of 'TO BE SIGNED FOR' letter, addressed to the Firearms Licensing Manager. This is because a lot of these Forces are under financial and man-power pressure and a lot - and I mean a lot- of emails are unanswered, or paperwork gets lost, or advice you've been given verbally can not be relied on later on, etc. My own experience, over the years, is that the individuals you deal with are almost always helpful and reasonable, but the SYSTEM they operate under fails.

 

[CPShines]

Re: Update

Hi CPShines,

Firstly, congratulations ! This will be the start of many happy hours spent "Wasting your time chasing deer," as my partner would put it.

Secondly, the condition on your licence is at the moment classed as closed. That means you can only shoot on land that has been deemed safe to shoot on by the police. Open status - when you can self assess a piece of ground - has different wording.

I am also interested in the FEO in the following:

One interesting thing is that I said I wasn't sure exactly what size mod I was going to get, so he amended the lines to say 6.5x55+mod, and .308 +mod. He said that way so long as I buy the rifle and mod together, it counts as one firearm and I can get whatever mod I want that fits the gun.

Unless the moderator is fixed permanently to the rifle - in the form of a shrouded, fully moderated barrel - I'm not sure that statement is right.

Has something changed that I am not aware of?

Good point. I forgot to mention that on my FAC it is written similar to this (I forget the exact wording):

.308 - rifle
.308 - moderator
6.5x55 - rifle
6.5x55 - moderator

So it looks like they have put them in as separate items despite what the FEO told me.

Thanks for clarifying the difference between open and closed - I had assumed that only the police could assess a piece of ground.

 

[Pine Marten]

My FAC arrived yesterday The conditions say I can shoot on any ground deemed suitable by the local police chief and that I have permission to shoot on - is this essentially an 'open' licence then?

Congratulations! That's the condition I have too. They'd said they'd make it open on first renewal, it didn't happen, and they didn't respond to me requests to change it. But that said, the Met take a very pragmatic view of this and to all intents and purposes, that's an open condition. They are never going to ask you to show that the land you went stalking on (which is always outside London and their patch!) has been approved by the local police...

 

[sy247]

My problem with this condition is that I think it is not practical to be able to obtain proof that land has been cleared by the relevant licensing authority when going on a paid stalk. You might ask the guide or the company that is providing the stalking but how do you know what they are telling you is right? It is your responsibility to comply with the conditions on your license. My understanding is that there is no centralised database of land clearance. Makes it a tad difficult to be sure.

Congratulations! That's the condition I have too. They'd said they'd make it open on first renewal, it didn't happen, and they didn't respond to me requests to change it. But that said, the Met take a very pragmatic view of this and to all intents and purposes, that's an open condition. They are never going to ask you to show that the land you went stalking on (which is always outside London and their patch!) has been approved by the local police...

 

[Pine Marten]

I don't think they want to have to deal with this nonsense anymore than we do...

 

[Kalahari]

I am sure in general terms you are right, but with my "we are all doomed hat on" if the land wasn't cleared the holder has ne defence if the police force wish to make life difficult.

David.

I don't think they want to have to deal with this nonsense anymore than we do...

 

[CPShines]

Thanks Pine Marten. Yes, I was wondering how practical it is to confirm that the land has been cleared. I think making a reasonable attempt to find out by asking the host is as much as we can do, other than of course ensuring all our shots are safe ones.

 

[sy247]

It's a difficult one. Hence my decision to request the closed condition was removed as soon as practically possible. The problem is that even advice from licensing authorities seems to differ.

As an example it was looking like my certificate renewal was not going to come through before my existing certificate expired. Advice from my licensing authority was that it was not necessary for them to issue a temporary permit to cover me for the interim period. The advice I received from BDS and NRA was very much to the contrary. They advised that if a temporary permit under section 7 wasn't issued the only way of ensuring that I stayed within the law and wasn't committing an offence would be for me to put my firearms in storage with an RFD.

I appreciate this is a different situation but you might want to ask BDS or BASC for their advice. In general I have found the legal advice offered by shooting organisations to be very good. They no doubt get asked the question a regular basis.

My view is that (particularly where firearms are concerned) it is very important to remain within the law. Best endeavours / ignorance as a defence wont cut it if someone wants to make life difficult. I like to be covered.

 

[CPShines]

Yes, good thought - I'll see what BASC say.

 

[Oracle]

Chapter 10.61 of the current Guidance to Police clearly states that if a certificate holder has submitted an application for renewal in a reasonable manner and time then a s7 permit should be issued by default if the certificate subsequently expires. This is normally based on the licensing authorities published turnaround times for renewal in order that holders can therefore submit applications for renewal well before expiry. Any refusal to issue a s7 permit, whereby any delay in the process cannot be judged to be the fault of the applicant, should be challenged, referring them to the relevant section of the Guidance and written confirmation as to why.

 

[Essex stalker]

Wasn't the law changed recently to give you a further 8 weeks after your ticket expires as long as you submitted your renewal in good time?

 

[Oracle]

Wasn't the law changed recently to give you a further 8 weeks after your ticket expires as long as you submitted your renewal in good time?[/QUOTE

Quite right. In essence that allows forces 16 weeks (80 working days) to turn a renewal around. Unfortunately we are all aware of some licensing authorities who couldn’t meet this target even prior to the change