Nosler e tip expansion test results

[Acm]

Thought you guys might find this interesting, I’ve been developing a load in my 6.5x55 using the nosler e tips and as I had a couple of hours free this arvo decided to do some expansion testing. At all ranges out to 300m I was getting a good 2 - 3 foot of penetration. The target was 25mm thick chip board shooting into 15 litre water cans in an effort to mimic a shoulder shot on a red deer.

So at 100m the bullet had expanded from 6.5 mm to 15.24
At 200m it had expanded to 12.29
And at 300m it has expanded to 10.35
I was also impressed with how accurate the bullet shot at these ranges with a crosswind, I know it’s not far for some of you guys ( yep you @dodgyknees ) but for a sussex farm boy with little fields it’s a poke!

This is with very modest low pressure reloads. The muzzle velocity has been chronoed at 2658 fps average (810m/s)
The impact velocity’s are
2420 fps (731 m/s) at 100m
2278 fps (694 m/s) at 200m
2109 fps (642m/s) at 300m
During load development I had hoped for better muzzle velocity but chose this load as it will stack bullets almost on top of one another and the fairly large arc of travel isn’t a problem with range finding binos and a turreted scope.
I’ll be using these on roe during the rut, then onto fallow, lowland and highland red and if possible maybe a sika later this year. Pretty unlikely I’ll use any much past 200m on live quarry. But it’s been a fun test.
100m - 200m - 300m left to right

 

[Lancaster]

Thought you guys might find this interesting, I’ve been developing a load in my 6.5x55 using the nosler e tips and as I had a couple of hours free this arvo decided to do some expansion testing. At all ranges out to 300m I was getting a good 2 - 3 foot of penetration. The target was 25mm thick chip board shooting into 15 litre water cans in an effort to mimic a shoulder shot on a red deer.

So at 100m the bullet had expanded from 6.5 mm to 15.24
At 200m it had expanded to 12.29
And at 300m it has expanded to 10.35
I was also impressed with how accurate the bullet shot at these ranges with a crosswind, I know it’s not far for some of you guys ( yep you @dodgyknees ) but for a sussex farm boy with little fields it’s a poke!

This is with very modest low pressure reloads. The muzzle velocity has been chronoed at 2658 fps average (810m/s)
The impact velocity’s are
2420 fps (731 m/s) at 100m
2278 fps (694 m/s) at 200m
2109 fps (642m/s) at 300m
During load development I had hoped for better muzzle velocity but chose this load as it will stack bullets almost on top of one another and the fairly large arc of travel isn’t a problem with range finding binos and a turreted scope.
I’ll be using these on roe during the rut, then onto fallow, lowland and highland red and if possible maybe a sika later this year. Pretty unlikely I’ll use any much past 200m on live quarry. But it’s been a fun test.
100m - 200m - 300m left to right

Thanks for that, I worked up a load using these bullets in the .270, then they suddenly seemed to be made of Unobtanium and no one had them in stock.
Did you see much evidence of tumbling after they had hit the target?

 

[Acm]

Thanks for that, I worked up a load using these bullets in the .270, then they suddenly seemed to be made of Unobtanium and no one had them in stock.
Did you see much evidence of tumbling after they had hit the target?

None whatsoever, they seemed to make a very straight wound channel

 

[Scipio]

Interesting, thank you for doing and reporting back on some field research

May i ask what bullet weight you were using?

 

[2Ll’s]

Interesting, thank you for doing and reporting back on some field research

May i ask what bullet weight you were using?

6.5 would be a 120 grain

 

[2Ll’s]

I love these bullets, thanks for the report, very interesting

 

[Acm]

6.5 would be a 120 grain

yep they're 120's

 

[Scipio]

6.5 would be a 120 grain

yep they're 120's

Cheers lads!

 

[User00033]

This is interesting.

There’s a bunch of tests with the E-Tip on Frontline Rejects. They don’t use a plank of wood in front of the water jugs.

At first glance, what they have demonstrated with the 120gr E-Tip (and other calibres / weights) is how important terminal velocity is to expansion ratio. In their test (6.5 Creedmoor @ 2,973 ft./sec MV) the 300yd bullet expands to 2.3x calibre with an impact velocity of 2,400 ft./sec. Yours has managed 1.6x calibre at 2,100 ft./sec with the assumed additional resistance of the wooden board.

The 6mm, .270 WSM and .300 Win Mag tests are worth a look for comparisons of different velocities and weights.

So comparing the two 6.5mm 120gr tests, we can see there are significant differences in projectile performance from similar cartridges, with the muzzle velocity delta of 11%. The interesting question is what effect the wooden board has. Does the wooden board force the petals further back than they otherwise would be if they were shot straight into water, hence reducing the expanded diameter? Are water only tests exaggerating expansion vs. real world shoulder shots? Is the wooden board really a good proxy for shoulder bone? What would happen in your test if you removed the wooden board? What would you achieve if you used the 6.5x55 to its full potential?

From your tests, I’d conclude you need to re-do load development and focus on velocity down range rather than pinpoint accuracy shooting paper. You do not need one-ragged hole pinpoint accuracy for hunting, but as your results suggest you need more velocity as margin for error. This is particularly important as target species weight increases as you describe. I think your MV is too low for lowland reds. The problem with saying “pretty unlikely” is there’s always the possibility you need to shoot much further than normal, e.g. the dreaded second shot on the runner you definitely didn’t plan for.

 

[Acm]

This is interesting.

There’s a bunch of tests with the E-Tip on Frontline Rejects. They don’t use a plank of wood in front of the water jugs.

At first glance, what they have demonstrated with the 120gr E-Tip (and other calibres / weights) is how important terminal velocity is to expansion ratio. In their test (6.5 Creedmoor @ 2,973 ft./sec MV) the 300yd bullet expands to 2.3x calibre with an impact velocity of 2,400 ft./sec. Yours has managed 1.6x calibre at 2,100 ft./sec with the assumed additional resistance of the wooden board.

The 6mm, .270 WSM and .300 Win Mag tests are worth a look for comparisons of different velocities and weights.

So comparing the two 6.5mm 120gr tests, we can see there are significant differences in projectile performance from similar cartridges, with the muzzle velocity delta of 11%. The interesting question is what effect the wooden board has. Does the wooden board force the petals further back than they otherwise would be if they were shot straight into water, hence reducing the expanded diameter? Are water only tests exaggerating expansion vs. real world shoulder shots? Is the wooden board really a good proxy for shoulder bone? What would happen in your test if you removed the wooden board? What would you achieve if you used the 6.5x55 to its full potential?

From your tests, I’d conclude you need to re-do load development and focus on velocity down range rather than pinpoint accuracy shooting paper. You do not need one-ragged hole pinpoint accuracy for hunting, but as your results suggest you need more velocity as margin for error. This is particularly important as target species weight increases as you describe. I think your MV is too low for lowland reds. The problem with saying “pretty unlikely” is there’s always the possibility you need to shoot much further than normal, e.g. the dreaded second shot on the runner you definitely didn’t plan for.

I watched those videos before loading up my own rounds and ideally, I wanted an mv over 2700fps, but they just shot like a crock of shite in my rifle at that speed. I’m pretty happy with the performance on simulated targets, I’ll try the next 50 on animals before I re do load data. These were loaded using the last of a batch of H4831, which we can’t get anymore. I reckon I could get better results with a different powder when I get a chance to pick some up.

 

[Dalua]

Thanks - very interesting, as eTips are the non-lead bullet I've worked up a load for in my .270.
I'm used to using 140gr conventional bullets at 2900fps, and I've now got a load with 130gr eTips running at a little under 3000fps. Without 'scope adjustment, they usefully shoot to the same POI as the 140gr at 100yds (about 2" high).

Looking at the results show, I feel confident that my loads will perform, at least as far as expansion goes, at hill distances.

I just need to have a go on the range at 200 and 300yds to see how and where they actually shoot - but I'd be surprised if they were far away from where the 140gr lead bullets go.

 

[Tis1979]

thanks for sharing your results, I found the same when trying the E-tips in my 7mm-08 I have a good load developed and have some on the shelf but am using yew trees which are performing very well on Roe, Fallow and Red.

 

[75]

I wanted an mv over 2700fps, but they just shot like a crock of shite in my rifle at that speed.

I've got a 260 like that. I couldn't get it to hold any level of accuracy about 2700fps (accurate stuff was actually down around 2500). That was a while ago with lead. I've since moved to copper, dropped to a lighter bullet and using a completely different powder and have great accuracy at about 3100fps. I guess if you're moving away from H4831 anyway then makes some sense to use that up before more load development.

 

[Scipio]

This is interesting.

There’s a bunch of tests with the E-Tip on Frontline Rejects. They don’t use a plank of wood in front of the water jugs.

At first glance, what they have demonstrated with the 120gr E-Tip (and other calibres / weights) is how important terminal velocity is to expansion ratio. In their test (6.5 Creedmoor @ 2,973 ft./sec MV) the 300yd bullet expands to 2.3x calibre with an impact velocity of 2,400 ft./sec. Yours has managed 1.6x calibre at 2,100 ft./sec with the assumed additional resistance of the wooden board.

The 6mm, .270 WSM and .300 Win Mag tests are worth a look for comparisons of different velocities and weights.

So comparing the two 6.5mm 120gr tests, we can see there are significant differences in projectile performance from similar cartridges, with the muzzle velocity delta of 11%. The interesting question is what effect the wooden board has. Does the wooden board force the petals further back than they otherwise would be if they were shot straight into water, hence reducing the expanded diameter? Are water only tests exaggerating expansion vs. real world shoulder shots? Is the wooden board really a good proxy for shoulder bone? What would happen in your test if you removed the wooden board? What would you achieve if you used the 6.5x55 to its full potential?

From your tests, I’d conclude you need to re-do load development and focus on velocity down range rather than pinpoint accuracy shooting paper. You do not need one-ragged hole pinpoint accuracy for hunting, but as your results suggest you need more velocity as margin for error. This is particularly important as target species weight increases as you describe. I think your MV is too low for lowland reds. The problem with saying “pretty unlikely” is there’s always the possibility you need to shoot much further than normal, e.g. the dreaded second shot on the runner you definitely didn’t plan for.

Some fair points made by dodgknees here Alternatively maybe the fragmenting non lead designs could be an option for maintaining decent terminal performance at distance when there might not be enough resistance for a non fragmenting bullet to open up suffeciently, should bone not be hit.

This also what Nathan Foster describes a bit i believe, when he advocates for non super fast catridges going for softer/easily fragmentable and heavier bullets when shooting at extended ranges instead of harder opening bonded or non lead non fragmenting bullets.
But as you say, if the TS ups his MV a bit, going for those sort of bullets might non be necessary at his expected ranges.

 

[Utectok]

I’m A big fan of yew tree tlr 6.5 try them if you fancy a change

 

[jcampbellsmith]

yep they're 120's

Any update on how you're getting on with the 120gr E--Tips?
Thanks
JCS

 

[Acm]

Any update on how you're getting on with the 120gr E--Tips?
Thanks
JCS

Yes, ive moved on to hornady cx, the etips were okay but i think would be better suited to 6.5prc or magnum speeds. I was getting on fine with them till using them on hill stags and found the expansion a little lacking over 250m. i used 150 of them and killed over a hundred deer with them though.

 

[Smellydog]

Thanks for sharing, that does look good.

 

[25 Sharps]

Thought you guys might find this interesting, I’ve been developing a load in my 6.5x55 using the nosler e tips and as I had a couple of hours free this arvo decided to do some expansion testing. At all ranges out to 300m I was getting a good 2 - 3 foot of penetration. The target was 25mm thick chip board shooting into 15 litre water cans in an effort to mimic a shoulder shot on a red deer.

So at 100m the bullet had expanded from 6.5 mm to 15.24
At 200m it had expanded to 12.29
And at 300m it has expanded to 10.35
I was also impressed with how accurate the bullet shot at these ranges with a crosswind, I know it’s not far for some of you guys ( yep you @dodgyknees ) but for a sussex farm boy with little fields it’s a poke!

This is with very modest low pressure reloads. The muzzle velocity has been chronoed at 2658 fps average (810m/s)
The impact velocity’s are
2420 fps (731 m/s) at 100m
2278 fps (694 m/s) at 200m
2109 fps (642m/s) at 300m
During load development I had hoped for better muzzle velocity but chose this load as it will stack bullets almost on top of one another and the fairly large arc of travel isn’t a problem with range finding binos and a turreted scope.
I’ll be using these on roe during the rut, then onto fallow, lowland and highland red and if possible maybe a sika later this year. Pretty unlikely I’ll use any much past 200m on live quarry. But it’s been a fun test.
100m - 200m - 300m left to right

Wouldn’t want to rely on anything bar the first one to be honest! What weight bullet, can you eek out a little more muzzle velocity?

I managed to get 110 gr .308 to 3400 fps but that was from a 27” barrel!

Excellent post by the way!

 

[jcampbellsmith]

Interesting.
Thanks
JCS