One for one variation.

[gixer1]

I haven’t done a OfO variation for a while - previously (rightly or wrongly) you would put in for the OfO and a condition was written that for example of if I want to acquire a new .243 I need to dispose of my current .243 first.

The FEO is saying that now you need to first dispose of the current .243 with a RFD, then apply for the OfO variation to be able to collect the new .243….

The issue I have with this is of you dispose of your current .243, then put in for the new .243 - what if for some bizarre reason it is refused? You are left with no ability to collect a rifle that you have paid for and is not sitting with an RFD potentially accumulating storage charges….

What are others take on this?

Regards,
Gixer

 

[timbrayford]

I haven’t done a OfO variation for a while - previously (rightly or wrongly) you would put in for the OfO and a condition was written that for example of if I want to acquire a new .243 I need to dispose of my current .243 first.

The FEO is saying that now you need to first dispose of the current .243 with a RFD, then apply for the OfO variation to be able to collect the new .243….

The issue I have with this is of you dispose of your current .243, then put in for the new .243 - what if for some bizarre reason it is refused? You are left with no ability to collect a rifle that you have paid for and is not sitting with an RFD potentially accumulating storage charges….

What are others take on this?

Regards,
Gixer

Your feo needs to read the firearms act and home office guidance

 

[gixer1]

Your feo needs to read the firearms act and home office guidance

Tim,

Can you remember what section? I’m away to look for it now but if you have a shortcut - that would be great.

 

[gixer1]

Seems to be the case that the disposal does need to come first -

“One for one” variations​

10.36 A variation is always necessary if a certificate holder wishes to change one of the firearms, even if they wish to purchase one identical to the one they are selling (Wilson v Coombe, Queen’s Bench Divisional Court, July 1988). “One for one” variation refers to firearms that are authorised to be acquired following the disposal of a firearm or a request to change an existing authority to acquire. There is no set time in which the certificate holder must apply for a replacement authority once their firearm is disposed of. The keeping of open authorities indefinitely should be discouraged, subject to a collector seeking particular firearms. Applications for “one for one” variations should be made by the certificate holder submitting their firearm certificate together with a completed Form 201V to the police firearms licensing department. Such variations are processed free of charge. In most cases, it will not be necessary to re-examine the applicant’s circumstances. Further enquiries will be necessary, however, if for example the application is for a change of use or for a full-bore firearm when the holder’s shooting club only has facilities for small-bore shooting.

 

[JockStalk]

I had to clear my slot first then had seven days to apply for a replacement slot/ authority to acquire. If not done within seven days then it was going to be charged for as a variation.

 

[gixer1]

Thanks JS - seems a bit backwards as (although unlikely) you could end up surrendering a slot for them to then say - "no, you cant have a new slot...."

 

[wytonpjs]

I had to clear my slot first then had seven days to apply for a replacement slot/ authority to acquire. If not done within seven days then it was going to be charged for as a variation.

Exactly this with my last discussion with A&S FLO. Hence like you, I needed 2 trip to the shop but the FLO confirmed that the variation would be issued if I disposed of the other rifle - still took 4 weeks to process

 

[JockStalk]

Thanks JS - seems a bit backwards as (although unlikely) you could end up surrendering a slot for them to then say - "no, you cant have a new slot...."

I called Inverness ahead of sale/ proceeding and, though I get your concern, they were spot on to deal with.

 

[Liveonce]

“The FEO is saying that now you need to first dispose of the current .243 with a RFD, then apply for the OfO variation to be able to collect the new .243….”

so this is correct then.

From my aging memory, you cannot pay in full for a section 1 firearm that you do not have authority to posses that is against the firearms act.

 

[timbrayford]

Tim,

Can you remember what section? I’m away to look for it now but if you have a shortcut - that would be great.

Not off the top of my head but if I recall the procedure correctly you get a vacant slot on your certificate for the new firearm and a temporary permit to hold your existing one until disposal. n.b. this doesn't allow you to possess both at the same time and usually there's a time restriction on it.

 

[gixer1]

Not off the top of my head but if I recall the procedure correctly you get a vacant slot on your certificate for the new firearm and a temporary permit to hold your existing one until disposal. n.b. this doesn't allow you to possess both at the same time and usually there's a time restriction on it.

That was how I remember it as well, but I guess its changed.

As for paying - in this case a rifle is being purchased from the other end of the country - it is then RFD'd to a local RFD which it will then be collected from. (which is fairly standard as far as I know!

 

[JockStalk]

That was how I remember it as well, but I guess its changed.

As for paying - in this case a rifle is being purchased from the other end of the country - it is then RFD'd to a local RFD which it will then be collected from. (which is fairly standard as far as I know!

standard practice as you say. Important difference between owning the firearm versus possessing the firearm! The seller usually needs the FAC with a free slot on it to write the sale onto before shipping to your RFD - that’s how it’s worked the last couple I’ve done.

 

[timbrayford]

Non- statutory guidance:
14.5 Permits may also be issued by chief officers to allow an individual to have a firearm in his/her possession for reasons such as the disposal of a firearm that has been removed from an individuals firearm certificate or reasons such as when an individual is found to no longer have a “good reason” to possess the weapon or they are in the process of selling/transferring the firearm to another authorised person or firearms dealer. In these circumstances chief officers may wish to consider issuing a short term temporary permit (valid for two months) to enable the individual to dispose of the firearm.

 

[VSS]

Not off the top of my head but if I recall the procedure correctly you get a vacant slot on your certificate for the new firearm and a temporary permit to hold your existing one until disposal. n.b. this doesn't allow you to possess both at the same time and usually there's a time restriction on it.

It would allow you to possess both at the same time.
The new slot allows you to acquire the new firearm, and the temporary permit allows you to retain the old firearm for a limited time period in order for you to arrange for it's sale or disposal.

 

[Will the chippy]

I did the above. Instead of a 141. I rang the feo and paid for a new slot on my ticket with a time limit to sell one and buy the new. So I had 2 of the same rifle allowed on my licence for a short time. I then went to the gun shop sold one and bought the new one in the same trip. As the gunshop was an hour away it was worth paying for the variation and it meant I was never without a rifle.

 

[wytonpjs]

“The FEO is saying that now you need to first dispose of the current .243 with a RFD, then apply for the OfO variation to be able to collect the new .243….”

so this is correct then.

From my aging memory, you cannot pay in full for a section 1 firearm that you do not have authority to posses that is against the firearms act.

You are entirely correct - Countryman of Derby alerted me to this recently so I paid all but £10

Moreover, they would only shop the rifle to my nominated RFD if I sent them my licence with the new slot in it first so they could add the details to my licence. Once the variation arrived, I drove up to Derby to get it in person rather bothering my local RFD. The moderator arrived direct from the supplying RFD to my RFD and the latter added that to my FAC

So many interpretations.

 

[martyn52]

It’s a lot easier to pay for a new slot , saying you will dispose of your old rife when your happy your new rifle is fit for purpose. Because if yours new rife has a problem you could be months without one. The last one I did was for a 375 HH it was never questioned.

 

[Ratsbadboy]

I did the above. Instead of a 141. I rang the feo and paid for a new slot on my ticket with a time limit to sell one and buy the new. So I had 2 of the same rifle allowed on my licence for a short time. I then went to the gun shop sold one and bought the new one in the same trip. As the gunshop was an hour away it was worth paying for the variation and it meant I was never without a rifle.

I did exactly the same. I had to order my new .243 as nobody had one in stock, so it made sense to pay for a second .243 slot so as I could keep my old .243 until the new one arrived. I also was able to maximise the price I got for my old .243 by selling it privately months after I was in possession of my new .243.

 

[wytonpjs]

I did exactly the same. I had to order my new .243 as nobody had one in stock, so it made sense to pay for a second .243 slot so as I could keep my old .243 until the new one arrived. I also was able to maximise the price I got for my old .243 by selling it privately months after I was in possession of my new .243.

Unless your FLO won't allow an increase in holdings, even temporarily to sell your old rifle, unless you go to full Tier 3 security measures! Ask me how I know

 

[M@tt]

I had to clear my slot first then had seven days to apply for a replacement slot/ authority to acquire. If not done within seven days then it was going to be charged for as a variation.

There is no time limit in which to apply for the 1-4-1. You do have to tell them of the disposal in a timely fashion however, but the 1-4-1 can be sent in later once you've had a discussion with the wife about reinvesting the new funds in another firearm.